Eric Hartley: Shut up and answer the questions

If U.S. Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama had to defend their positions in class debates at St. John's College, they'd both be in big trouble.

At least that was the consensus among a bipartisan group of about 15 freshman "Johnnies" who watched the final presidential debate last night over root beer floats and pizza at Chick and Ruth's Delly in Annapolis.

"They would routinely lose seminar," said Michael Feidt, a McCain supporter from Manassas, Va.

He was referring to the informal scoring system students have among themselves for judging who won a class discussion over one of the "great books" that are the foundation of learning at St. John's.

"You make your argument, and then you support it," Mr. Feidt said. "If you're asked a question, you answer it and then give your reasons instead of a laundry list of drivel."

Ahem. Did you catch that, John and Barack? And listen up: Anyone who interrupts another debater or uses an "extremity" - an unfair comparison that appeals to emotion instead of logic - loses seminar.

Bzzzz. Sorry, senators, but you were both lovely contestants. Here are your parting gifts.

No one expects a presidential debate to be conducted at the level of a seminar on Herodotus or Homer. But is it too much to ask that the discussion about who will be the most powerful man in the world turn on a bit more than canned talking points, scare tactics and tit-for-tat?

These college students, all first-time voters, ran the gamut from Michael Lacy of Vienna, Va., who voted absentee for Mr. Obama because he's "just trying to have something different" than eight years of President Bush, to Mr. Feidt, who likes Mr. McCain because "he doesn't want to take my guns away," and "he's not pro-choice."

But they were almost all roundly unimpressed with both men.

During the debate, there was some texting, a lot of joking and a few smoke breaks. But for the most part the students watched and listened intently.

Contrary to what you might think of college kids, these Johnnies said they're not online 24/7 following the election. For one thing, they're often buried in the great works of antiquity. For another, the Internet on campus is really, really slow.

"Every once in a while we check our Facebooks - that's about it," said Tyler Clegg of San Diego, an Obama supporter. (And there's no cable on campus, which is why they watched in the upstairs room at Chick and Ruth's.)

So Mr. Lacy was relieved, if somewhat disheartened, to discover he hadn't missed much - other than Gov. Sarah Palin - despite not paying attention to the presidential race for two months. Same old arguments.

Yes, there were drinking games, albeit without alcohol. Drink every time Mr. Obama says "middle class," for example, or every time a candidate dodges a question. (Both, in case you didn't notice, happened a lot.)

Mr. Clegg first jokingly proffered a jug of pancake syrup for the drinking game, then wisely reconsidered: "Better go with water."

Afterward, Mr. Lacy said he was disappointed the candidates based most of their debate on such a narrow view of history, squabbling over what went wrong the past eight years - in other words, President Bush's administration.

"Why not go 100 years back? Why not go 200 years back?" Mr. Lacy wondered.

And several students came away wishing the debates had featured the same kind of rigorous logic and respect for opposing arguments as their class debates. Instead, Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama mostly scored cheap political points and engaged in endless back-and-forth. (The now-famous Joe the Plumber was mentioned more than 20 times.)

"It gets very petty very quickly,' said Sam Frank, a student from Pennsylvania. He added with understatement: "Our debates at school are a little different."

As the Johnnies started their walk back up Main Street toward campus, Mr. Feidt recalled what he was thinking at many points during the debate.

It was a thought that many Americans, regardless of party, probably shared: "Will you please shut up and answer the question?"