Driveway dispute divides Annapolis Roads community

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I don't - 2010-09-05 20:58:02

think it cost Darryl Wagner this much to defend building a house illegally on the island.

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Pat Magnum - Arnold, MD - Karma: Excellent

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????????? - 2010-09-05 14:59:33

Sal, you have now gone from talking about issues not related to the homeowners in the article to attributing things to me that I did not say. This behavior sounds similar to that being engaged in by the plaintiffs in the case.

I never said 'what's the big deal...it's just a crummy little path'. I pointed out that your complaining about waterfront homeowners preventing people from getting to the Bay has nothing to do with what is going on here. I would certainly hope that if there were a precedent setting issue at play here, that somebody involved would note it. Thus far, they have not and I have seen nothing to suggest that there is one.

To the vast majority of the community, there is no doubt that there is no impact upon them. Legal action or the lack thereof impacts neither their enjoyment of the community beach nor their rights or obligations regarding any piece of community property other than the driveway in question.

Do you think it was just some kind of oversight that led to the Board not divulging the cost to the other homeowners? If the other homeowners thought it was important, wouldn't they be all for it?

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Jorge Garcia - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Jorge - 2010-09-05 14:10:29

First off, my hat is off to you, my good man. You bring condescension to a whole new level as an art form. That said, do your research. Anne Arundel county is anomalous to other areas in the country in respect to the number of special tax districts. Property rights, public access, rights-of-way, etc. are all crucial elements to their existence. From time to time, issues of ownership find their way to the court. The vast, VAST majority of the time, these lawsuits involve waterfront or non-riparian, waterview property owners. However, whatever precedents that are set by the outcome of these legal proceedings affect ALL future litigation, whether or not it involves waterfront landowners. It doesn't come down to "what's the big deal...it's just a crummy little path." This lawsuit is bigger than the participants. Got that, Jorge?

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Salvatorre Bagatelli - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Terrible

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Sal, again - 2010-09-05 12:28:10

Reality....

Directionality: 'of, pertaining to, or indicating direction in space.'

Your statement: 'Invariably, a waterfront owner, who has a great view, a great pier, and a hot wife...decides that, hey, I have everthing, BUT the common riffraff are walking past my house to look at the bay'

You present the facts as being such that people going toward the Bay are hindered by those terrible waterfront homeowners. If they weren't trying to get to the Bay, they wouldn't be going in that direction.

Of course it is a matter of precedent. That precedent has nothing to do with your rant regarding waterfront homeowners. Weird that you are so interested in bringing up unrelated matters and then complain when people assume that you are talking about the matter at hand. Take responsibility for yourself.

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Jorge Garcia - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Jorge - 2010-09-05 12:14:41

Your misuse of the word "directionality" must have distracted you from the fact that I did not say anything about this particular homeowner. Rather, this is a case of setting precedent. When a homeowner asserts ownership or hinders passage through common property, it becomes easier for other to do so. You get riled and self-righteous very easily.

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Salvatorre Bagatelli - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Terrible

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Again, reality - 2010-09-05 10:55:26

Sal - You were ranting about the terrible homeowner not allowing people to walk past his house so people could enjoy the Bay. If you look at a map, it would actually take longer for everybody else in the community to use this driveway rather than Carrollton Road (except a few which could use it if they walked through numerous other backyards along Lake Ogleton, which wouldn't be appropriate in the mind of any normal person).

What happened is that you brought up the notion of directionality by claiming that as people want to walk toward the Bay, they are being impeded by this homeowner. Now, you are claiming that directionality does not matter. If everybody involved dealt with the actual situation rather than seeing only what they want to see (as in this case), it would have been resolved with no problems.

Unfortunately, too many people don't deal with reality. This is seen by your behavior in trying to convert this into a screed against waterfront homeowners, disregarding the fact that it has nothing to do with this situation.

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Jorge Garcia - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Wait...what? - 2010-09-03 22:49:57

"The driveway in question leads AWAY from the Bay, not towards it as some comments have stated." What does that mean? That's like saying Route 50 leads away from D.C., not towards it.

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Salvatorre Bagatelli - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Terrible

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$360,000! - 2010-09-03 22:28:18

Repeat $360k a couple times and you'll sense the follie, what a waste of....the community's money. Where's the survey? $1000. you get the stakes. The community, neighbors, anyone could have requested a survey. 'Ownership' of the driveway is only at issue because it enabled a 420 sq. ft. addition. The county approved the plans, it's built. $360,000, $90,000 from taken from the community. Charity...suddenly the attorney says 'I'll only charge you another $20,000' Only another $20K?.... Let the adjacent property owners pay for litigation, it's their folly. If it's a community road, sell it and recoup some of the loss. What kind of kangaroo community meeting are they holding, no recording, speak for two minutes...get a grip and Roberts rules.

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harry trampolini - severna park, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Pat - - 2010-09-03 11:52:46

If you are looking at the house/driveway in question, we were told it is the house to the right that lost some waterview (opposite side of the driveway, same side as the addition). Interestingly, that house has trees in the front yard that block far more of the view than this addition. Also, I agree - if waterview has suddenly become a legal right, where do I sign up?

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Anna Roads - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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All commenters - 2010-09-03 11:36:12

should look at a map before making assumptions about possible motives. The driveway in question leads AWAY from the Bay, not towards it as some comments have stated.

After looking at the map, I would be very interested to hear why anybody other than the homeowner would use the driveway.

Screeds against waterfront/waterview homeowners and attorney in blanket terms as seen here show an unwillingness to look at the facts.

The way I see it, there are two issues. One: Ownership of the driveway. This should be pretty cut and dry. This leads to the second, where even cut and dry issues can be drawn out within our legal system.

Two: The appropriateness of using community funds to pursue the lawsuit, particularly without providing notice to all paying members of the association. If a client wants to move forward with legal proceedings, the lawyer (absent a frivolous claim) is bound to move forward. It is up to the client to determine when to stop. Since these few individuals were using community funds to further their own interests, their reasons for ceasing the legal proceedings were diminished.

One has to wonder if legal action can be taken against the Board members for misappropriation of community funds, fraud, or something of that sort.

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Jorge Garcia - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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If I were Mr Lindsay, - 2010-09-03 09:22:52

I would probably start planting trees that would totally Block his neighbor's view through his property.

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Russ Patterson - Stevensville, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Anna - 2010-09-03 08:37:58

I can't tell from the google map who lost waterview because of this addition, any idea?
I did notknow a waterview was a right, I am going to get to work on that for myself.

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Pat Magnum - Arnold, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Anna - 2010-09-02 23:38:11

Anna is right. This is about one homeowner being upset that someone else's legally built addition might block her view. So she manipulated the board to fund her private lawsuit. This has nothing to do with blocked access to the water. Wake up community and stop the bleed of your tax dollars!

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Annapolis Mom - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Litigation - 2010-09-02 10:37:49

This is not about a driveway, it's about a limited number or residents wasting the community's funds. $90,000 in legal fees, board president shutting down discussion? If the residents don't put an immediate stop to this, they deserve what they get, a legal bill. If the community owns the road, sell it or make it into a public parking spot. This is a private fight, let the participants pay for it, not the association.

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harry trampolini - severna park, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Salvatorre - 2010-09-02 08:02:58

I perhaps was not clear - NO ONE is unable to access the bay or the beach without access to this driveway. EVERYONE still has access to the bay and this driveway has NEVER been needed to access anything on the waterfront - not even by the people who sued. Also, nothing about the driveway has changed and I never heard the driveway owner say he wouldn't let the other 3 owners get access through it if they needed to do so. By the way, the addition to the house that started this whole mess is on the OTHER SIDE of the house from the driveway, so I think you can read between the lines on what this is really about.

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Anna Roads - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Anna - 2010-09-02 00:12:09

This is an odious system, to be sure. BUT, as a county, we continue to elect lawyers as legislators. And they make the rules. And these rules favor (surprise!) lawyers. They are a horrible people. That said, I get where you're coming from. But we are an odd county in that most of our neighborhoods are special tax districts. We are also a very old coastal community, meaning that we have oodles of "paper roads" that lead to and from nowhere, but belong to ALL of the residents of a particular community. Invariably, a waterfront owner, who has a great view, a great pier, and a hot wife...decides that, hey, I have everthing, BUT the common riffraff are walking past my house to look at the bay. This will not do. So, they unleash the parasitic lawyers to seize or restrict that passageway, forcing the community to hire their own parasitic lawyers. And this process draaaaaaaaaaags out for a loooooong time. Why? Because the lawyers on both sides bill by the hour. And they both know, wink-wink, that the longer the process drags out, the more money they make. And before a lawyer starts to froth at the mouth in indignation, let me just point out that you are a very bad person. Case closed. All that said, if communities allow this to happen, all of the waterfront owners begin to shut down rights-of-way that lead to the bay. It seems very stupid, a tiny driveway and all, but it leads to only the wealthy being able to enjoy the bay.

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Salvatorre Bagatelli - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Terrible

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Rick - 2010-09-01 23:16:31

HA! :D

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William H - annapolis, md - Karma: Excellent

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I was at the meeting and - 2010-09-01 21:39:01

walked out to hear the other side of the story - the one our board president and our $500 an hour lawyer from DC did not want to share. This dispute is about money spent and the questionable actions of our board of directors. Three years ago, our board and 3 property owners sued a neighbor and have now LOST the lawsuit twice and filed an appeal to the higher court - it's only supposed to cost another $20,000! This "informational meeting" was a pathetic attempt at damage control after actively trying to hide this lawsuit from the majority of the community for 3 years. It was only after several residents filed public information requests with the county auditor to find out how much of our tax dollars have been spent was this "meeting" finally arranged. Not only has almost $90,000 of our tax money already been spent, it still appears questionable if only the bills of the community were paid vs those of the individual property owners who stood to gain if they won. This driveway leads nowhere that anyone else in the community would need or want to get to - we have plenty of access to our beach and the driveway does not take us there!

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Anna Roads - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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In Google Earth - 2010-09-01 15:51:30

It appears that the house with the largest boat docked in the "lake" has built his house to the limits of his property to the point that he cannot get any heavy equipment into his back yard without using the driveway of his neighbor. Is this the problem here or is it something else?

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Russ Patterson - Stevensville, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Mark - 2010-09-01 12:38:39

are you sure you can use the word "good" with the word "attorney" in the same sentence?

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Rick M - Laurel, Md - Karma: Excellent

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'Private enclave' - 2010-09-01 11:56:10

The road in front of these homes abuts the beach, a community beach. The residents at this end of the road have discouraged and dissuaded residents from parking access. Let them spend on legal fees. Tagging the rest of the community for private for a private litigation is specious. The County may have incorporated this driveway into total land area predicated on the owners statements. In reality, this affects a few. That is unless... it is established as a community road. If that is the resolution all residents of Annapolis Roads should stop by and enjoy the Bay and Lake Ogleton. Be careful, the next piece of 'new business by the 'board' may be to vote in a limited access caveat. Association residents can attend the next meeting and vote to stop or move forward on this nonsense.

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harry trampolini - severna park, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Are You Telling Me... - 2010-08-31 16:11:42

That there are no land use records for this ridiculous strip of land? Maybe it's a driveway easement for the enjoyment of others but deeded to someone else. A GOOD land use attorney can sort this out in an afternoon.

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Mark Smith - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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The Capital removed my comment - 2010-08-31 15:58:55

Basically what I said was check out Google Maps and you can see that their "Driveway to Nowhere" is a driveway to two adjacent lots back yards. Use Google Maps to find the exact location and turn on Satellite view so you can see the lay of the land.

I'm not a court but if they have legitimate deed to the land and you don't, it's not your land. Adverse possession was not mentioned so a deed and a survey should be all it takes. Someone at the county should explain how one and one does not equal two. ??

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William Small - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Addition - 2010-08-31 15:26:31

If the driveway is within the property owner's boundaries then build the addition and just get over it. As for blocking your nieghbor's view of the water,they should have bought another lot. Case closed. Whose next?

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Comment removed by HometownAnnapolis staff. - 2010-08-31 12:14:54

Staff message: Why is this comment hidden?

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If the land belonged to the - 2010-08-31 04:08:34

Association and the association did not convey the land to the adjacent property owners, than the County issued the permit illegally. And someone had to "claim the land as theirs" on the permit application! There are far too many of these oversights going on in the older communities. People come along and use common property and then try to claim it as their own. Bay Ridge property owners got acres of waterfront by adverse possession because Ron Jarashow accepted the fact that the HOA had not maintained the property. Of course, my community has spent hundreds of thousands rebuilding the shoreline and discouraging use of waterfront in strategic areas. These people took what belonged to their neighbors and had plenty of money for legal fees. They just waited. Sometimes things are worth fighting for. If this land is deeded to the private property owner, then each member of the HOA looses value to their property and common ownership rights are deminished.

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Maryellen Brady - Edgewater, MD - Karma: Bad

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reading the between the lines - 2010-08-30 22:58:37

The article says that half the people walked out of the meeting. It says that the board president - Hopkinson, was shouting for Mr. Lindsay, who tried to tell his side of the story, to stop talking or to be thrown out of the meeting which apparently happend. Then Hopkinson lamented that half of those in the room deserted the meeting, that half chose "to walk away from an informational meeting with the wrong information in their heads."

Is it me or does this not add up? It seems like Hopkinson was chosing what the right information is for her community. I recall in the American system of town meetings there there are "Roberts Rules" for the proper conduct of a meeting and not a set of rules that someone namde Hopkinson makes up. In fact, is this not what our enduring two party system is based on? Proper discourse! Sounds like fasism to me but what do I know!

- Publicus!

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John Sciandra - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Raejean - 2010-08-30 20:51:44

I agree. What does the deed say? Many times, I believe that HOAs can sometimes be a little invasive on property rights.

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William H - annapolis, md - Karma: Excellent

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Curious - 2010-08-30 14:44:59

I'd like to know what the deeds (and possibly a survey?) say about the boundaries of the Lindsay property.

I'd also like to know how many years the adjacent neighbors had been using the driveway for deliveries and access to their backyards, and why, if they had their own driveways. What was the history of the Lindsey's response to that use before the building addition fight arose?

Was there really ever any contest over the ownership until someone needed justification for blocking the addition from being built?

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