Bush/Cheney lies

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Ironic - 2009-11-01 21:29:17

Neill,

A couple of posts back you accused President Obama of "running race wars in Chicago." So, ironically, you made a wild, unsubstantiated claim in the very post in which you accused The Capital of making a wild, unsubstantiated claim. Again, I don't really have a dog in the fight here, but it kills me when liberals and conservatives froth at the mouth while accusing the other side of the very sins of which they, themselves, are guilty. It really comes down to outrage over those who don't share your point of view. Half the time in these posts, The Capital is accused of being liberal. The other half, conservative. The real truth is that neither political extreme is particularly rational. They're just shrill.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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The Capital criticized Obama?! - 2009-11-01 20:29:00

First, this is a statement of fact, not opinion: "for knowingly and falsely proclaiming an attack from Iraq was imminent".

Secondly, I could totally prove malice. Nick, give me one example where this paper "blasted" Obama.

In its own little way, The Capital does its bit to proselytize for its adored man-child, and everyone knows it, you little sneaks.

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Neill Harrier - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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Bush/Cheney - 2009-11-01 09:51:59

Reading these comments shows exactly what's going on with this country's politics. Bush & Cheney are evil and lied, Clinton was great or Bush & Cheney were protectors and Clinton was self absorbed.
Hmmmm....which is it? Could it be that this is a bit more complicated? Concerning Iraq, didn't the United Nations confirm most of accusations made by the US concerning weapons of mass destruction? Didn't Hussein do everything in his power to make it LOOK like Iraq was guilty of these accusations. Whether or not the invasion should have taken place is open for debate, but the evidence that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction was not at the time. I wish people wouldn't denigrate the Presidency with absurd accusations. Disagree with the decisions, but don't look for a "Nixonian" conspiracy for every decision a President makes including the current one.

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J C - , - Karma: Good

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Bring home the troops ? - 2009-11-01 01:51:40

Not now. the unemployment rate is too high as it is, if we remove these soldiers from the government payroll our country will suffer. We must keep the vast military machine running in order to secure the existence of our people and a future for OUR children. People don't let our country slip away.

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Fred Shubbie - , - Karma: Terrible

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Bring home the troops. - 2009-10-31 20:42:26

Now lets try and get our troops home from the mess our goverment got them into.The people over there have been fighting for thousands of years,how can we and I mean the USA possibly change anything over there.

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Anthony Barham - crownsville, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Yes, Yes, Yes, - 2009-10-31 20:35:13

Yes they misled the country.I see cheney more now on TV than the whole time he was in office.HMMMMM

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Anthony Barham - crownsville, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Bush/Cheney Lies - 2009-10-31 12:14:08

My view is that Bush suffered temporary insanity after 9/11 and lashed out at America's most obvious adversaries, Al Qaeda/Taliban and Saddam Hussein. Dick Cheney, already a committed Neo-Con thug, took full advantage of Bush's unbalanced mental state as well as his incompetence and provided the ideological justification and the climate which manifested a vast net of lies which led to the invasion of Iraq. We all know the result of this ill-informed war: the needless deaths and maiming of thousands of US service men and women, the needless deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and another trillion dollars added to the national debt. Although Bush, as Commander-in-Chief, bears the ultimate responsibility for this debacle, Dick Cheney was far more instrumental as the puppet master behind the scenes. Cheney is alot more like the Serbian war criminals now on trial in the Hague than any of the Founding Fathers. I am looking forward to the day when Dick will have to think more than twice about traveling abroad. He might be sharing a room with one of his soul mates, a Serbian war criminal.

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Libel/Slander - 2009-10-31 00:02:45

Neill,

First off, you don't mean slander, you mean libel. Second, the former president is a public figure and it would almost be impossible to prove malice. Basically, the president, regardless of party, is fair game for any kind of criticism, with or without proof. Third, George W. Bush was one of the worst presidents of the twentieth century (and I am not Democrat, so don't bother justify GWBs regime by criticizing those of Clinton or Carter, because I don't care and I won't defend them). Fourth, I am neither a peacenik nor a liberal, and I supported the war in Afghanistan, but the Iraqi invasion was the most idiotic foreign policy blunder in American history.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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and besides - 2009-10-30 21:01:03

there can't be any damages, and well, it is quite possibly true. Let us not forget truth is an absolute defense to defammation, and the trial proposed by the writer would settle that. Slander ? Pah----leeeese

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Fred Shubbie - , - Karma: Terrible

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Neill - 2009-10-30 20:56:31

The Capital is not Hometown Annapolis for the purposes of Nick's explanation. Regardless you can't defame or libel a President in the abscence of Malice, in this case a reasonable man can see their is no malicious intent.

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Fred Shubbie - , - Karma: Terrible

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Wiki-law - 2009-10-30 20:50:45

"Plaintiff in a defamation or libel case must prove that the publisher of the statement in question acted with reckless disregard of the truth or falsity of the statement." Doesn't seem to matter where the statement originated, if The Capital published it.

So maybe the question is, does The Capital care whether the proposition "Bush lied" is true.

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Neill Harrier - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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Baseless - 2009-10-30 20:18:15

By the way over 24 hours have passed and none of your readers have posted anything to back up the idea that "Bush 'knowingly and falsely proclaimed an attack'".

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Neill Harrier - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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Own up, Nick - 2009-10-30 20:15:11

Nick,

Of course The Capital publishes it. It's on the website. You think that is not publishing? Who owns this website?

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Neill Harrier - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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KC - 2009-10-29 23:10:43

seems to have a monopoly on information. Why isn't he the head of the CIA? No one wants to look at the result, when is the last time Bono asked for Peace in the Middle East?

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Peter Dennis - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Slandering a President - 2009-10-29 22:35:05

What proof is there that Bush "knowingly and falsely proclaimed an attack"? Please refresh my recollection. If there is no such proof, it would seem that The Capital publishes slander under the guise of "Letters to the Editor".

George W. Bush is an outstanding public servant who has done much more for this country than that fraud, Barack Obama, ever will. Plus, he flew F-102's in the Air Force while Obama was busy running race wars in Chicago.

Capital, I await the removal of this comment.

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Neill Harrier - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Bad

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Are you kidding??? - 2009-10-29 21:19:19

Crapital tells it like it is....rediculous. I sincerely believe that there are many more lies in the obama admistration that will come out. We are heading for disaster unless we get those puppets in congress to vote for the people's majority. This left/right administration is tearing us apart.

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Mary Anderson - Harwood, MD - Karma: Excellent

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No Clinton Fan, I - 2009-10-29 15:51:28

I'm not a fan of the Clinton foreign policy. I'm just making the point that an absence of an attack is not proof of an administration's effectiveness.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Crapitol - 2009-10-29 14:51:58

This article is a perfect example of why I've boycotted this newspaper. This is the third liberal driven article sent in by a reader that you people have published recently, but this one is by far the most rediculous. Bring Bush to trial for lying? You've got to be kidding me! Publications such as this one, and people that make comments like Frank Libbon did are the reason this country is heading for disaster. Want a good comparison? How about we prosecute Obama for lying (that's right, he lied). The CDC has been in close contact with the govt. since the H1N1 crossed US borders. All of a sudden Obama claims he didn't know there wouldn't be enough vaccine. From CNN: "Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said the federal government has known all along there would not be enough H1N1 vaccine to cover all at-risk Americans and that plans to donate a percentage of the U.S. supply to foreign countries is still under consideration." Guess what people: Obama lied. Let's bring him to trial. I can't wait to watch the liberals pound me with thumbs down. "Ignorance is bliss"

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Mike Morgan - annapolis, md - Karma: Bad

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To "Not Given" - 2009-10-29 14:50:53

Take a few minutes and read this speech...

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ron_Paul%27s_Iraq_Speech

It is from 2002 and "proves" that "T." was not the only one thinking this way.

It also exposes the pretexts the Bush administration used to sucker the many brain dead representatives, senators, and citizens into supporting the unconstitutional bill that handed the decision to go to war with Iraq over to the President.

If only we could follow the constitution in this country. We would be so much better off. (not that it's perfect, it isn't... but the checks and balances it prescribes are there for good reason, and we continually find ways around them and find ourselves in bad situations because of it)

Our founding fathers would be sickened by the current state of government here. I sure am.

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Bruce K - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Clinton - 2009-10-29 12:24:50

Clinton had a foreign policy while in office? I heard a rumor there was one. But, I dont think anybody ever validated it with actual evidence that supports the claim. I believe Clinton was more interest in domestic affairs.

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Rick M - Laurel, Md - Karma: Excellent

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T: Slight correction - 2009-10-29 12:10:35

"Clinton's foreign policy was superior to Bush's because there were NO foreign terrorist attacks on American soil during Clinton's presidency."

Clinton took office 1/20/93 and the first WTC bombing was 2/26/93. It was most likely planned before he was elected, but took place shortly after he took office.

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Hanged Hussein - 2009-10-28 21:31:07

Enough already. Let's get out before we have to hang another one.

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Fred Shubbie - , - Karma: Terrible

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Opposition Pre-Invasion II - 2009-10-28 20:37:32

Under the same link:

"Opposition from national security and military personnel"

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Opposition Pre-Invasion - 2009-10-28 20:35:42

Not Given,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War

Scroll down to "Popular Opposition."

There were plenty of rational people at the time who knew that the Iraq Invasion was a horrible mistake, and not for humanitarian reasons, but for strategic ones.

And I have to agree with JF. The absence of another attack is hardly proof of successful policy. By that rationale, Clinton's foreign policy was superior to Bush's because there were NO foreign terrorist attacks on American soil during Clinton's presidency. Of course this isn't true, but it demonstrates how strained that logic actually is.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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war prevents terror? lol - 2009-10-28 19:52:32

"we have had zero attacks on our soil since."

ok, so attacking iraq prevents terrorist attacks? since the terrorists they were actually funding were in palestine, hows the situation in palestine faring? whoops, looks like theyre not "in it for the money". (but lets keep away from that kettle of fish, eh?)

short and sweet the bush doctrine is stupid. it isnt based on any sound reason, its just speculation and wishful thinking.

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J F - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Good

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T. - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-28 19:45:38

You wrote, "I can assure you, with a clean conscience, I feel the same way then that I do today." Believe me, I believe what you're saying here.

With all due respect, can you provide any evidence that anyone and I mean ANYONE else felt the same way as you did at that time with regard to your 3 main points?

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Not Given - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Terrible

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J F - Baltimore, MD Iraq/Al Queada - 2009-10-28 19:28:13

You comment about no direct Iraq/al Queada link... At first the focus was not anyone one terrorist group in particular.

The Bush doctrine states that we make no distinction between a terrorist and those that harbor them. The doctrine did not focus on any one terrorist group. Based on the doctrine, it was clear that Iraq was a state sponsor of terror and therefore whether its' focus was the US or not, the Bush doctrine calls for dealing with Iraq as a terrorist entity. You can argue that we should have addressed other terror sponsoring countries too but I think the focus targeted Iraq because they were clearly trying to hide their intentions (and badger the UN) with regard to nasty weapons programs and they were clearly sponsoring terrorist activities. Bush figured it would only be so long before some nut with a brief case loaded down with something horrible got loose in the US assisted by a state terrorist sponsor. So the strategy was to prosecute the war overseas - you can't guard everything at home. You cannot argue that it has not worked, we have had zero attacks on our soil since.

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Not Given - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Terrible

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Response: Bush/Cheney lies - 2009-10-28 14:25:07

"Provide the FBI with the top priority mission of investigating all who spread lies, hate, and calls to violence."

Guess Eric Holder will have to pull the FBI off the CIA waterboarding case, Frank.

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Relevant speech from 2002 - 2009-10-28 12:42:11

Yeah, it's from Ron Paul, and I know some of you think he's a crank... but regardless of what you think about him, he makes some very relevant points in this speech that relate to this conversation.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ron_Paul%27s_Iraq_Speech

Enjoy.

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B Kibbey - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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failure is failure whether by incom - 2009-10-28 11:39:32

ff- you are quite right about support for suicide bombers and you phrase it well, however there were people making false claims that there was an iraq-al qaeda link.

rh- this isnt a whoopsie, this is a big deal and yes, it was intentional on the part of the people spinning these stories out of whole cloth. what about the people that processed the intel and were took in hook line and sinker, even when there was contradictory evidence? those that wrote up the sexed up briefings, omitting the flakiness of that "intel"? incompetent or malicious, they need to be cut out of the system. Obama's agenda to simply move forward and leave this in the past is rather disappointing.

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J F - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Good

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Actually, that is not quite true... - 2009-10-28 11:08:36

"Iraq, as dirtbaggy as they were, had no connections to any terrorist group."

T - while I have a tendency to recognize the points in your posts as valid most of the time in this argument, I have to say your statement above is not true when taken in a broad context. Iraq may not have had any links with terrorist orgs we currently feel threatened by, they were supporters of terrorist orgs that consistantly threaten Israel. They made no bones about the fact that they would pay the family of any Martyr that attacked Israel a significant amount of money for that action (I want to say it was about $50K, but I am not sure).

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fred flintstone - , - Karma: Excellent

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bush/Cheney lies - 2009-10-28 10:13:01

The "lies" were based upon the actionable intelligence that Clinton,Congress,British Intelligence, the FBI and CIA had at the time. In Hindsight the data was flawed but no intentional lies.

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FLASH* NEWS ALERT** - 2009-10-28 10:09:59

Politicians lie.

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Fred Shubbie - , - Karma: Terrible

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T - 2009-10-28 08:30:01

I must agree with you about the discussions going on, they are civil and very well thought out. I know I won't change your opinion or you mine, but a good debate. Anyways, i just don't beleive he intentionally misled us into the war. Bad intell, ill-prepared after we took down the government and looking back, ill-timed, I couldn't argue any of those points although I would have thought we could handle two small countries together, I did hear some say different at the time. The only other point is someone said something about 2nd class leader in a 3rd world country, why bother - to me, they are the ones we need to watch.
Well, have a good debate, I'm going to leave this one alone now.

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Matt B - Deale, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Thumbs up/down - 2009-10-27 18:55:55

And what's up with the thumbs up/down? This is the first rational discussion I've seen in a while. People can disagree with each other in a civil manner. No Name disagrees, but he/she is being pretty logical about it.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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WMDs - 2009-10-27 18:53:15

Not Given,

I can assure you, with a clean conscience, I feel the same way then that I do today. Even at the time I thought that the administration was straining to attach Iraq to the War on Terrorism, and the dots never connected. And, again, there is no way that Iraq would feed weapons to terrorists and we knew that at the time. Iraq, as dirtbaggy as they were, had no connections to any terrorist group.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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T- Hindsight - 2009-10-27 18:31:22

Your 3 points about opposition at the time are currently the 3 most popular points I hear raised today. I am not so sure about whether you felt that way then or not. No one knows but you. My recollection of that time is that Iraq was an extension of the war on terror, another piece of the puzzle, I do not recall anyone on the national scene speaking about it as a "distraction".

Now, we all know that the US tried to get UN buy in for military action in Iraq. It's hard to get buy in when the other large nations on the security council are in bed with the offender. Russia, Germany, France and China have all been found to be hanging out in bed with Iraq at that time over weapons and/or oil. So, we tried that route it was a futile, miserable failure.

Assuming you want a relevant UN, what were we to do? To me, Bush thought he needed to keep the UN relevant and the intel said this was a major problem. Bush knew he could not allow terrorist to get WMDs. We knew Iraq had WMDs and the tense nature of the relationship between Iraq and the US caused the country to fear that Saddam would give the terrorists the nasty stuff if the opportunity came up or the relationship further deteriorated. The country looked at the evidence and the risks and agreed. No lie, and therefore no responsibility to enforce.

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Hindsight - 2009-10-27 18:13:02

Not Given,

A fair question. At the time, I fully supported George Bush's invasion of Afghanistan. The regime supported and harbored a terroristic army that had declared war and attacked our country. So that was a fair act. And, at that time, I vehemently opposed the invasion of Iraq for two reasons: 1. It was a massive distraction from the war on terror, and would require the US to allocate a tremendous amount of troops, equipment and money. 2. Iraq was not a threat to US security. 3. The Iraqi flaunting of sanctions was a UN issue, not an American issue. And my opinion has not changed to this day. Everyone on the right and left in this thread are obsessed with assigning blame. Again, a loyalty to a party, rather than ideology. Do I think Bush lied? No. And frankly, I don't care. The childish finger pointing based on party distracts from the core business and security by this country. The only ones who benefit from blind loyalty to party are the dirtbag politicians and the money-grubbing talking heads like Glenn Beck and Keith Oberman. And America falls for it. Republicans: George Bush screwed up big time with his invasion of Iraq. Democrats, your congressmen were right behind him allowing him to do it. AND where were the Democrats when the Patriot Act passed? They all voted for it because they were terrified and wanted Big President Bush to protect them. AFTER the fear faded, they became indignant. Everyone, stop pointing fingers and realize that you are being used.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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KC - Economy - 2009-10-27 18:07:19

I appreciate the spirit of a lively debate with you where we keep the dialogue centered on our differing opinions. This certainly is a great country.

You have a good one too!

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Not Given - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Terrible

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KC - Accountable - 2009-10-27 17:56:21

It's clear that because you offer no real proof you must be looking back with hindsight and preaching to us like you (and maybe even people that think like you) somehow knew better. It's okay to do that, but don't represent your position like you did not form the position over the course of the last 5+ years.

Now, you just said...

"All I'm saying is everyone should be held accountable for their actions and not hide behind spinsters, Executive Privelege, abuse of power, and such. Obama and his entire administration is certainly included in that as well."

Okay, let's talk about who needs to be held accountable and for what?

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LOL - 2009-10-27 17:55:04

Maybe Biden wasn't the best choice, but he was a Google response. I was just in a hurry to get home to eat dinner but I ended posting more. Hahaha!

Have a good one NG!

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Correction: - 2009-10-27 17:51:49

Our war in Afghanistan was against Al Quada and the Taliban for harboring Bin Laden and terrorists alike.

By the way, I said Iraq has helped cripple the economy, not that it was the primary cause.

The primary cause to our disasterous economic meltdown is GREED and greed alone. Clinton and Frank wanted more Americans to own homes...unqualified Americans saw $ signs and so did predatory lendors, mortgage companies, and our big old banks.

Many wealthy people have used greed to accumulate their fortune, only to fall into bankruptcy protection and start all over again. This time, it was 100,000 fold and included low and middle class families living beyond their means.

Luckily for me and my family, I'm not part of the problem because I read every fine print of every contract and I also Google-up on things. ;-)

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KC- You're really going to use Bide - 2009-10-27 17:40:44

Joe Biden makes John Kerry look consistent...

I can google too, you know. A short piece about Biden's positions on Iraq from wikipedia follows. He may have made an idle statement or two supporting the afghan over Iraq argument here and there, but Biden supported the 2003 invasion.

"In 1990, Joe Biden voted against the first Gulf War after Iraq under Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. In 1998, Biden expressed support for the use of force against Iraq, and urged a sustained effort to "dethrone" Saddam Hussein over the long haul. In 2002, as Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he stated that Saddam Hussein was "a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security" and that United States has "no choice but to eliminate the threat". He also said, "I think Saddam either has to be separated from his weapons or taken out of power." Biden also supported a failed resolution authorizing military action in Iraq only after the exhaustion of diplomatic efforts, Biden argued that Saddam Hussein possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons; he subsequently voted in favor of authorizing the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Biden has since said that he believes it was a mistake to support the Iraq War because it has been mismanaged by the Bush Administration. In 2005, Biden said, "We can call it quits and withdraw from Iraq (but) I think that would be a gigantic mistake, or we can set a deadline for pulling out, which I fear will only encourage our enemies to wait us out--equally a mistake."

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Staying power - 2009-10-27 17:40:10

I agree with Biden: "but we have fallen short in demonstrating the staying power necessary to achieve stability". We've already given up on Iraq and seems we will be giving up on Afganistan soon if the last few weeks are any indication.

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Matt B - Deale, MD - Karma: Excellent

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N G - 2009-10-27 17:39:39

I'm not saying that Bush/Cheney and everyone else that made mistakes that led up to the invasion of Iraq love our country less than I do. All I'm saying is everyone should be held accountable for their actions and not hide behind spinsters, Executive Privelege, abuse of power, and such. Obama and his entire administration is certainly included in that as well.

The debate we're having today is healthy for our country and is indicative of the values of our freedom. I support our troops 1,000,000%!!! I don't support going to war where war isn't warranted.

Our war in Afghanistan was against Al Quada and the Taliban for haroboring him and terrorists alike. It was justified by 9/11 and supported worldwide, probably by 80-90% of the world population. The justification to invade, and yes we invaded, Iraq was
simply not strong enough.

Have a great evening everyone! :)

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So I Google my information... - 2009-10-27 17:28:09

Maybe Bush and Cheney should've in 2002. At least I'm an informed American. Unlike many people who just fall behind their elected leaders and blindly repeat their ideology on everyone else, like it or not.

Even with some gaffes, Biden is smarter than most of us.

As early as the spring of 2002, Senator Biden, Ranking Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, called for strengthening our resolve in the fight in Afghanistan. Speaking on the Senate floor, he warned, "the very same conditions that enabled the Taliban to come to power in the mid-1990s are rapidly emerging again...Unless we take a serious look at our policy, I greatly fear we may be setting the stage for a tragic replay of recent Afghan history." Again, in the fall of 2003, after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, Senator Biden cautioned against taking our eye off the ball in Afghanistan: "With our attention focused on Iraq, we run the risk of overlooking the alarming deterioration of security in Afghanistan. In both countries, the projection of American military power was decisive, but we have fallen short in demonstrating the staying power necessary to achieve stability."

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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K C - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 17:22:57

This is off topic but,....

To overly summarize...

The primary cause of the economic collapse is mostly attributed to falling home prices. Bill Clinton and Barney Frank led an effort to give mortgage loans to people that everyone understood could not pay. The premise of the plan was founded on a flawed principle - housing prices will always go up. When housing prices leveled off and even began to shrink, the banks no longer could rely on rising home prices and suddenly, the banks were holding mortgages at values that were more than the homes were worth. The banks were short and a run on the banks was feared. The gov't pushed huge amounts of dollars to the banks to allow them to dispose of the "toxic assets". this climate created quite a bit of anxiety and banks were not lending money and consumers are still not spending it. We have stagnated.

The Bush administration has plenty of responsibility in this too as they did little to nothing about it for nearly 8 years. By the time Bush told us, it was an all out emergency. To me, Bush was trying to keep this from us until after the election. That prevented a lively debate between the candidates during the campaign and it's costing us dearly now. Bush is responsible for doing nothing but I can understand that it would have been a very hard sell for him to balk about things when home prices were rising 5% a month and everyone was making money based on the false premise. It still does not justify the lack of attention by the Bush administration. I think Bush and Clinton are equally responsible.

Obama has responsibility now too as he told us he was going to fix it, the jury is still out.

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Rick - 2009-10-27 17:19:32

Sorry, I was responding to Ronnie.
KC - how about bad intelligence, that I'd agree with, but Bush didn't knowingly lie, he went on that intelligence.

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No reasoning with unreasonables - 2009-10-27 17:13:50

69% of the House and 77% of the Senate vote were misled. That is overwhelming misled elected officials. If you average that out, its 75%. Which is 3/4 of who were misled. Slice it anyway you want. It's misleading.

Do you think that if it was revealed to Congress BEFORE they voted that the "intelligence" came from exiled Iraqis, they may have thought to themselves "Hmmmm, is this accurate or do they just want Saddam out as bad as Bushwacker?"

Maybe I should change it from misleading to manipulation of intelligence?

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0706-02.htm

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Rick - 2009-10-27 17:09:23

OK - I'll give it to you, you didn't say 'take down the government'. But to get those that committed the crimes would have left a major void in the government there. I wish it was as easy as get in, get them, get out, but its not that simple.

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K C - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 17:06:21

If you want to complain or second guess in hindsight, the value of the intel at the time, the historical responsibility for that has been attributed to Bill Clinton, you know.

Can you please offer to the group how and when you came up with the wonderful concept of focusing on Afghanistan instead of charging into Iraq? Please tell us how and when you came to that realization.

Further, you seem to be pretty good at web research and fact finding. Can you provide proof that anyone, and I mean ANYONE, in the United States was arguing to concentrate on Afghanistan as opposed to going after Saddam when the decision was made to go to war in Iraq.

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Votes - 2009-10-27 17:02:19

69% of the House and 77% of the Senate vote in favor. That is overwhelming support. If you average that out, its 75%. Which is 3/4 of the vote. Slice it anyway you want. Its a majority.

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N G - 2009-10-27 16:54:13

Another "C'mon man!"

Each branch of Congress has Committees but it all depends on the make-up of Replubicans vs. Democrats. At the time, it was a Republican led Congress. Of course a majority of Congress was in suport, but even that is mis-leading information because the majority weren't Democrats.

Both times the Democrats took over the White House, it was during a slumping economy. The Iraq war has helped to cripple our economy.

I will say it again...we DID NOT have to enter Iraq at the time. We should've focused on Afghanistan and the Taliban/Al Quada.

It needs to be investigated so that we don't repeat the mistakes. As for the "best intel that was available"...it was discovered that the "intelligence" mainly came from exiled Iraqis. How did that work out for us again?

You and your supporters sound like Baghdad Bob, aka Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf , who was the Iraqi Minister of Information. Remember him? The one who said "There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!" and "They're coming to surrender or be burned in their tanks."

All the while, the tanks were a few meters away.

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Ronnie clay - Churchton - 2009-10-27 16:49:12

Got me, I give up, what exactly did I say that was so hard for you to understand. I can write a little slower, you know.... :)

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K C - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 16:45:59

We love your facts and figures but what is your point? We have said that there was overwhelming support for it, if your stats are correct, nearly 71% of Congress supported it. Your statistics support the argument that no one was deceived, mis-led or "lied" to as part of the process.

Did you post those stats purely for the purpose of establishing blame? If you want to place blame, you've got a big group of people to target as most were in favor of the proposition.

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Oh oh Rick! - 2009-10-27 16:39:25

Looks like someone did his homework.Time to put up or shutup Rick.

Notgiven in Crofton no wmd over here but looking at your comments that are hard to understand by the way, you may want to check your basement or Cheneys.

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K C - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 16:33:33

I don't know what you want to investigate. If the intel was bad, okay, it was bad, we all understand and can agree to that. but looking back on it now. Fair enough. But at the time, the entire country, for the most part, was in agreement on this issue. Based on that, where's the part about mis-leading come in? The administration, using the best intel that was available at that time, drew an opinion and presented the evidence to the American people and Congress. We all agreed. When you talk about "mis-leading the American people and Congress" it sounds to me like you too are looking at this with 20/20 hindsight. For the record, Congress has a national security committee. That committee reviewed the evidence, on their own, without the interjection of the administration's judgment and/or opinion. They concluded the exact same answer.

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C'mon Rick! - 2009-10-27 16:25:00

Name one dictator that says "Sure, come on in and investigate me!"

And here's your overwhelming support:

House
Yay - 297 (R: 215, D:82, I:0)
Nay - 133 (R: 6, D: 126, I:1)
No Vote - 3 (R:2, D:1)

126 (61%) of 208 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.

6 of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).

The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)
Reps. Ortiz (D-TX), Roukema (R-NJ), and Stump (R-AZ) did not vote on the resolution

Senate
Yay - 77 (R: 48, D: 29, I:0)
Nay - 23 (R: 1, D: 21, I:1)
No Vote - 0

21 (42%) of 50 Democratic Senators voted against the resolution: Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), Wyden (D-OR).

1 of 49 Republican Senators voted against the resolution: Sen. Chafee (R-RI).

The only Independent Senator voted against the resoution: Sen. Jeffords (I-VT)

Overwhelmingly Republican!! Insert blame here?

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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War Vote - 2009-10-27 16:01:13

Both Houses overwhelming voted in support of the War. Republican and Democrat united as one. Of course, memory has a way of fogging the details and even the ones that claimed they didn't vote, can be proven by the record.

Why was Saddem so keen on keeping the UN investigators out of his country. If he had nothing to hide?

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Rick M - Laurel, Md - Karma: Excellent

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N G - 2009-10-27 15:59:01

If I may...

"At the time of the decision to go to war, there was overwhelming support for it by the American People and Congress. The country was looking at the same evidence, the same opinion was drawn nearly across the board."

This is exactly why the issue should be investigated. Especially after the fact that it was determined that the information was inaccurate and the administration misled the American people and Congress on the basis of "National Security". What happens when the information is found to be inaccurate, but is ignored and mis-represented to the UN Security Council? You reveal the identity of a classified CIA operative.

I don't know what T's feeling were during that time, but in my gut, I was of the opinion that is was the wrong time to pursue Saddam and felt the evidence tying his regime to the 9/11 attacks was iffy, at best. Unfortunately, it brought down the credibility of a great soldier and American, Colin Powell. Even though he continues to state that he went by the intelligence put before hime, I'm pretty sure deep down, he regrets being involved in misleading this country.

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Matt B. please reread - 2009-10-27 15:10:54

Mr.Matt my statement was "go in whoop some you know what and get out". What is meant by that statement is that you go in get the people who committed the crime and get out.Is it possible YES! Has the U.S. done it before YES! Nowhere in my comment did I say remove the government.

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Ronnie clay - Churchton, - Karma: Excellent

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Yee Haw - 2009-10-27 15:02:27

Look at those liberal votes! Keep 'em coming guys. Just like a bunch of sheep being blindly lead to the slaughter house. If you think Bush was a liar, just watch what happens in the coming years with the new administration.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 15:01:02

I really have no interest in the go to war decison, but I can't resist to comment about your statements about the Iraq threat at the time.

You offer such a clear and concise summary, totally in hindsight. At the time of the decision to go to war, there was overwhelming support for it by the American People and Congress. The country was looking at the same evidence, the same opinion was drawn nearly across the board.

Would you mind offering to the group how you felt about it at that time, rather then constantly talking about it in terms of your position today?

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Not Given - Crofton, md - Karma: Terrible

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What a shame. - 2009-10-27 14:52:36

Koolaid hangover there Frank? The messiah not working out quite the way you hoped? All out of Hopey Changy? That's okay, blame it on Bush, the way O's poll numbers are going you will belong to a very exclusive club come 2012....

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Ted G. - Edgewater, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Trigger Happy - 2009-10-27 14:21:08

Hey, Mike, I think the point of all this is that he wasn't threatening us. He never did. He was a second-rate leader of a third-rate country. Iraq was never a threat to US security. Not even a little bit.

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Clarify something - 2009-10-27 14:13:22

For those folks who are justifying the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld invasion of Iraq...

After 8 years in Afghanistan and 7 in Iraq, what do you suggest we do now? The Husseins are gone and Bin Laden hasn't been captured, so what should be the new strategy?

Invade Pakistan for harboring terrorists?

Invade Iran for attempting to develop nuclear (not nucular) weapons?

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K C - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Libbon - 2009-10-27 13:18:31

I'll tell you what...next time we're threatened by an outspoken terrorist leader of a third world country, how about we all just hold hands and sing yum ba ya and hope the threat goes away?

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Mike Morgan - annapolis, md - Karma: Bad

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Left Voters - 2009-10-27 13:02:50

Looks like the left is pounding all the thumbs down again in spite of all the accurate facts defending the obvious. Like Lolah H. said earlier, maybe Mr. Libbon,as well as all the others still harboring needless hatred toward a past administration, should focus their efforts more on the downfalls of the current one. As a perfect example, take a few minutes and watch the following video...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ

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The Kurds - 2009-10-27 13:00:50

We all know the Saddam was one evil guy the the world does not miss at all, but lets not forget that the US, under Reagan, and a couple of NATO allies supplied this blood-sucker with the chemicals needed to manufacture the nerve agents used against the Kurds. Why did we support Saddam? It was all part of the payback against the Iranians for humiliating the US during the hostage crisis in 1979-1980 after the Shiite Revolution there. We were all too willing to be Saddam's murderous accomplices when it suited our purposes just like we were all too willing to take him when he became too much of a liability, all with the huge expenditure of human life. But that's OK. Conservatives don't really care when others are doing the dying.

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War Crimes - 2009-10-27 12:44:39

Bush made a huge mistake selecting Cheney as his vice-president. Bush was not confident nor experienced enough in the foreign policy arena. Cheney was, and used it to full advantage to establish the neo-cons as the preeminent force in the administration. This led to all kinds of nastiness in the name of national security which stains our nation to this day. In the post 9/11 years these traitorous thugs kept our nation in constant fear of future attacks as they carried out their negative agenda: i.e. the war in Iraq, Abu Graib and the larger issue to torture, extraordinary rendition. Most of the world grew to mistrust and hate our nation because of the arrogant and excessively aggressive policies of the neo-cons. Maybe the right-wing Bush/Cheney lovers out there thought that it was OK to treat the rest of the world with utter contempt. I don't and most Americans don't either. Last time I checked, about 20% of Americans approved Cheney's actions, influence, whatever. This guy is not a patriot. Perhaps a better place for him would be in cell in the Hague.

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Pasquale Z. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Still... - 2009-10-27 12:15:50

J.F.,

All very interesting, however, even if that was all true, it was not the United States' responsibility to call them on their violations. It was the UN's. Why would we want to when, at the time, we were immersed in the War on Terror and fighting a war in Afghanistan? Our plate was more than full. Even if he did have WMDs, the last thing Hussein wanted to do was to pick a fight with the West. As far as Al Qaeda was concerned, Iraq was a greater enemy than even the US or UK, so there was no chance of Iraq providing terrorists with these weapons. So again, why was it such a priority for us to invade when we had so many larger problems in front of us?

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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re: gassing kurds in 88 as proof of - 2009-10-27 11:57:28

notgiven and T- your attention to detail is STELLAR. what happened between iraq attacking kuwait and the US invading iraq? UN sanctions. Iraq gave up their weapons, tried to make more, got found out, handed them over, tried to make more again, got found out again, handed them over, tried to buy some, got found out handed them over and gave up the process on account of the massive amount of fail they incurred over it.

timeline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_timeline_1990%E2%80%932003

BK- damn yes, vote them out.

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J F - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Good

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Who should be investigated? - 2009-10-27 11:13:26

Mr. Libbon calls to "Provide the FBI with the top priority mission of investigating all who spread lies, hate, and calls to violence" - but isn't that exactly what his letter is doing? First, we will never settle the debate of the "Bush lied", do you really think any administration would provide ALL details to a military action? There are many that are held back due to national security. Second, the fact that nearly one year after Bush has left office, this guy is still looking for vengeance is pretty darn hateful in and of itself. Perhaps people such as Mr. Libbon should focus on the CURRENT administration and perhps the lack of experience, the lack of action and the constant campaigning rather than governing of Obama.

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T. is right... what happened to REA - 2009-10-27 11:04:02

T., you seem to be the lone voice of reason on this thread. You are so right, yet people don't want to hear the truth. Why is that? It's because we all want to believe that our team/party/side is 100% right, and the other is 100% wrong. But it doesn't work that way. This isn't a sport where one team wins and one team loses. We all win and lose together as a country, but people don't want to look at it that way... People need to stop going to the polls and blindly voting "D" or "R", that just isn't helping. Pay attention to the actions of your representatives and call them out when they screw up, not years later, immediately! Or better yet, call them out BEFORE they screw up, perhaps stupid decisions can be avoided. The decision to go to Iraq was supported by 77 Senators and 296 Representatives. Many of those Senators and Representatives on both sides of the aisle, are still in office today... Why is that? Vote them out!

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B K. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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OMG - 2009-10-27 11:03:07

They are all Judas Goats. God have mercy on all of our souls.

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Secondly... - 2009-10-27 10:52:22

Oh, and by the way, even if Iraq DID have WMDs, it is a UN mandate NOT a US mandate. So Matt, the United States is NOT the sheriff, and we didn't have a warrant.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Weapons - 2009-10-27 10:44:19

Yes, the gassing of Kurds is proof of WMDs. In 1988, when the incident may or may not have occurred. We invaded in 2003, fifteen years later. So we were sooo outraged at this travesty that waited fifteen years? It was one of several excuses to invade. And my point with Turkey is that if you felt that the Iraqi treatment of the Kurds was reason enough to invade, then would you support invading Turkey to prevent a similar human rights violation? That's a valid question.

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Not Given - 2009-10-27 10:36:41

This is what happens when you get your news from 'the daily show'. They don't understand that EVERYONE thought he had WMD. All the evidence said he did, he said he did. If I tell my neighbors I have a bomb in my home and a sherriff comes by with a warrent and busts my door down, can I say he lied to get that warrent? I must be missing something.

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Matt B. - Deale, MD - Karma: Excellent

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T. - Annapolis, MD - 2009-10-27 09:55:35

I offer gassing the Kurds as proof that Saddam and his henchmen had WMDs. I am participating on that topic of this thread along with whether or not Bush/Cheney lied. What you say about Turkey and/or going to war is not really something I've commented on. Can we leave your assumptions about my positions out of this?

You don't use WMDs and then somehow no longer have WMDs.

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Not Given - Crofton, md - Karma: Terrible

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J F - Baltimore, MD? - 2009-10-27 09:46:59

Funny. Now you are suggesting reading up on the Iran/Iraq war to understand the use of WMDs on both sides. At the same time, you support the statement that there were no WMDs in Iran ( and further Bush/Cheney lied). It may not occur to you, but you are contradicting yourself with those 2 positions. Can you understand the logic of this statement? If Iraq used WMDs, Iraq has WMDs. There is no question about it.

Are you a lawyer or a member of Congress?

I think we'll never find the WMDs, but that doesn't mean they were never there especially when any reasonable person considers the truths in this debate.

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Comment removed by HometownAnnapolis staff. - 2009-10-27 08:19:34

Staff message: Several comments have been disabled solely because of name-calling. Disagree, but please be civil about it. Why is this comment hidden?

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- Karma: Good

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Someone get the WH on the phone - 2009-10-27 07:27:25

A nutjob in Odenton wants to try Bush. It better be a big courtroom, Congress almost unanimously supported and funded going into Iraq.

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re: not given - 2009-10-26 21:15:12

"why did he behave like he did?" he claimed to have wmd's he didnt have, in order to keep iran at bay. read up on the iran/iraq war, heavy use of wmd's on both sides. I doubt you would play your cards any differently in his shoes after the dust had settled on that one.

yeah, the weasely slimeball tried to start up a few programs /import some weapons and failed miserably at it. we didnt need war to corner him there, we had been doing so non stop.

"Hopefully we don't find his WMDs in Washington DC one day." knock that off, appealing to cowardice is a weak argument. that may work in france, but you're just wasting your time here.

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Kurds - 2009-10-26 20:25:37

He gassed those "poor Kurds" to death in 1988. If we were so shocked SHOCKED by this, why wasn't he arrested immediately after our invasion of 1991. Again...pretext, pretext, pretext. And even again, the Turks have pounded the Kurds for decades and are doing it today. Using U.S. intelligence, no less. Where is your outrage with this war crime? By your logic, should we invade Turkey now since they are killing their own people? And he behaved as if he had WMDs because that's the only thing that kept Iran from pouring over the border. And everyone knew it.

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J F - Baltimore, MD - 2009-10-26 20:17:49

Have you checked those "facts"? Saddam was arrested, went on trial, was convicted and sentenced to death for using WMDs on the Kurds. Crimes against humanity was the violation. He gassed those poor people to death, it's a fact, it's not open to debate. It was proven in an Iraqi court. I know this might be hard to follow, but try to follow me on this. Whether he had WMDs or not is clear and definitive, even to someone who thinks like you do. Further, if he didn't really have something nasty hiding in that country, why did he behave like he did? The truth is that he had them he was allowed to delay the process that gave him plenty of time to hide and/or destroy them. reasonable people thank Bill Clinton for that. Hopefully we don't find his WMDs in Washington DC one day.

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re: dictionary.com - 2009-10-26 20:01:18

not given> if I go around saying the moon is made out of cheese, people dont need to prove that I know the moon is really made out of rocks to call me a liar. they know the moon is made of rocks, they know its not made of cheese, they know Im claiming to know things which I do not know.

you are adamant that these weapons exist and just arnt found yet, you live in a childish boogeyman world where there is a monster in your closet and a wmd under every rock until you verify it isnt there. grow up.

"I hope those weapons don't end up in Churchton, MD where they might harm someone that means something to you."

they wont, because they dont exist. the evidence for them has been exposed as fraudulent- one of their sources turned out to be a talkative cab driver that read a few books on the subject and was looking for a payout. another one claimed to be an Iraqi General, turned out he was an Iraqi Sgt trained to respond to WMD's. yellow cake.

"Saddam died for USING weapons like the ones he hid from us against his own people." almost, except for the hiding part. if by hide, you mean give to the UN, then sure.


hey, if they do find WMD's, I'll eat my words, but how many years has it been?

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R Clay - another comment - 2009-10-26 19:27:28

dictionary.com defines a lie as "a falsehood uttered or acted for the purpose of deception; an intentional violation of truth; an untruth spoken with the intention to deceive". To review, R Clay, a lie implies that the truth is known and and the truth is not divulged. Can you please provide the proof, for that matter, any proof, that Bush and/or Cheney lied? In hindsight, you may be right about not finding the weapons. I hope those weapons don't end up in Churchton, MD where they might harm someone that means something to you. The fact of the matter is that Saddam died for USING weapons like the ones he hid from us against his own people. Do you still doubt he actually really did have them. Your argument is as old and stale as the wind.

If you want proof Clinton lied, I can prove that without doubt.

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Not Given - Crofton, md - Karma: Terrible

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I'd better correct this one quickly - 2009-10-26 18:51:34

I meant the UN action against Iraq after the Kuwait invasion was justified. Not that Iraq was justified in invading Kuwait. My fingers got away from me.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Loyalty to Party II - 2009-10-26 18:49:30

Paul...this is exactly what I was talking about. If Clinton had invaded Iraq, I'd be calling him out on an idiotic decision. It doesn't matter which party pulled the trigger, the action, itself, was misguided. Where exactly is the conservative anger at countries with human rights violations that are far worse than Iraq's ever was? Burma, China, Saudi Arabia, Haiti, Albania, Tajikistan, Angola, Sierra Leone. There is no anger and no calls for action on these countires. Why? Because Hussein's human rights record was a convenient excuse. The Kurds? Turkey is beating the hell out of the Kurds right now, and we are conveniently looking the other way. It's fine when the Turks kill Kurds, we just didn't want Iraq doing it. And invading their neighbors? Kuwait was justified. And we acted in concert with the global community. Ten years before that, we armed the Iraqis to the teeth and encouraged them to invade Iran who was, at that time, our mortal enemy. Reagan certainly didn't have a problem with Iraq invading Iran. Now suddenly Republicans are claiming that was a bad thing? And if, IF, weapons of mass destruction were to be found, that would be in violation of UN mandates NOT enforceable by the United States. It was not a US mandate to be enforced. North Korea violates UN sanctions and mandates all the time, so why didn't we invade? Again, because it was a flimsy excuse to invade. Again...this has cost us $695 BILLION dollars. And what do we have to show for it?

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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R clay - 2009-10-26 18:48:19

It may have been lies, but not by our government. Sadam is the one that led us to believe he had the WMD, he also put a reward out for the next terrorist that hit us, no matter who they were. He was insane. As far as just going in and taking down a government then leaving the people of that country to fend for themselves, I can't even start to imagine how that is right. Just because something gets hard and we lose some people, doesn't mean we should just leave them in chaos. And just because they don't want us there doesn't mean we can ignore what is going on there. There are countries that torture and kill their citizens, and although we can't police the world, we cannot turn our backs either. I know there are a lot of people that would have been grateful to have another country interfere with us back in the slave days.

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Matt B. - Deale, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Edward Weller- Corrected - 2009-10-26 18:19:12

If Iam not mistaken the terrorist from 9-11 made camp in Agfhanistan not Iraq. Iraq was suppose to have weapons of mass destruction which was a lie plain and simple.The only reason JR. went to Iraq was to finish a job his father didnt. As for the terrorist most of them were Saudies. Why didnt bush attack Saudi Arabia? Why are we even in the middle east trying to get people to live as we do.Its plain to see the people dont want us there and we been there how many years.All that should have been done was to go whoop some you know what and then get out of there.Its all a bunch of lies.Over 4000 dead and numerous injured in a place that doesnt want us around and that has been around for thousands of years.

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R. clay - Churchton, - Karma: Excellent

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Our Allies - 2009-10-26 18:08:56

And every senior Democrat on the Intelligence Committee looked at the same information Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney had and agreed that Iraq had or was developing illegal weapons. These folks included Mr. Clinton, Kerry among others.
Iraq ignored 12 years of U.N. mandates and cheated on food for oil, targeted U.N. aircraft in the no-fly zones, killed thousands of Shiites and Kurds and turned away U.N. inspectors.
Besides, Sadam was a sadistic killer with two sons that were WORSE!
This of course after invading three neighbors.
What say you dear writer if in a few years we DO find illegal weapons in Iraq? "Sorry Mr. Bush, I was wrong for calling you a Liar"?
I doubt it.

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Paul O'Flanagan - West River, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Wacko! - 2009-10-26 17:23:39

I agree! While the Cocaine Snorter in Chief is off busy playing golf and basketball, "managing" 2 wars, ruining our health care system, spending us into debt our children will never get out of, he certainly should be capable of taking on the task of prosecuting Bush and Cheney. He's a lawyer, right? He can prosecute them himself. I thought I saw an "S" on the front of his shirt during the campaign.....

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Not Given - Crofton, md - Karma: Terrible

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On the one hand - 2009-10-26 17:13:31

if you are scared just because someone has a weapon, you are an idiot and need to expose yourself to the world a little more.

Now accountability for the iraq war- absolutely. I dont like being lied to. I dont like the way that the yellow cake forgery was simply brushed aside. I dont like govt officials throwing around colloquialisms like "slam dunk" so they can posture that they are absolutely certain about a prediction, yet weasel their way out of accountability if they get taken to court over their fraud.

DB- sorry, we didnt go into ww2 to protect the jews, only once we were conquering Germany did we find out about the ugly little secret. we didnt go into iraq to protect kuwait either, after the first gulf conflict we completely neutered iraq, they had no capacity to harm us or their neighbors.

EW- you have your countries confused. terrorists were being trained in afghanistan, not iraq. an al quaeda operative would have gotten thrown off a roof in iraq under saddam.

TB- the previous comments show how sadly dislocated people are from reality, Bush has to be drug through the town square with his wrongs listed to pull people out of this dream world theyre living in.

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J. F - Baltimore, MD - Karma: Good

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Loyalty to Party - 2009-10-26 16:59:38

The number one problem with this country is the need for individuals to ferociously defend the decisions of their party...right or wrong. What ever happened to reason? Instead, we have rationalization after the fact to excuse idiotic actions. For example, Democrats have never called out Clinton on his inaction in Rwanda, which lead to the deaths of nearly one million people. But conservatives, by the same token need to take a look at the Iraq war and admit that it was one of the worst foreign policy blunders in American history. A war, by the way, that has cost $695 BILLION dollars so far. And what do we have to show for it? In my mind, the invasion of Afghanistan was justified. They were harboring terrorist groups that had targeted American interests at home and abroad. But Iraq? Iraq was a pariah in the Islamic world, living in isolation, and was considered an enemy by Al Qaeda. Hussein's human rights record was not stellar, but it was certainly not worse than our good friends, Saudi Arabia, and definitely not worse than China, to whom we have given most favored national status. And even so, international human rights was never particularly high on the conservatives list of issues. The weapons of mass destruction were not found, and it is now generally accepted by the intelligence community that Hussein was deliberately vague on the question so as to keep Iran, their mortal enemy, at bay. The policy of containment was working beautifully and there was no reason, whatsoever, to invade. But since we did, we now own a white elephant that will cost us in the trillions of dollars in the end. All this while we are debating the cost of Obama's (extremely clumsy) healthcare proposal. So we broke it, we bought it, but let's not rationalize it and pretend that an invasion was necessary.

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T. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Comment disabled due to community reporting. - 2009-10-26 16:17:47

Why is this comment hidden?

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- Karma: Neutral

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Bush/Cheney Lies - 2009-10-26 15:25:06

I find it ironic that this gentleman would want to arrest anyone showing up at town hall meetings supposedly armed with guns. Perhaps if he bothered reading the federalist papers and the constitution he may find out why, besides the leftist union types assaulting American citizens at our rallies. Funny, not a word about the Attorney General dropping the case of the Black Panthers in Philadelphia intimidating voters with clubs. I have 23 years of military experience and I have to admit I have more tolerance for our enemies than I do for liberals. At least I understand why our enemies hate this country. And No, I don't think the constitution starts and ends with the "Right to Bear Arms," just as much as I don't believe it gives liberals the right to governmane handouts because they are to lazy and uninspired to work for their own betterment.

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Larry Smith - Cordova, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Bush/Cheney - 2009-10-26 15:19:59

Wait until some of these countries test us again and we don't stand up to them, we're going to be in a world of trouble then.

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Matt B. - Deale, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Well - 2009-10-26 14:49:31

It did take 4 years of Carter to give us Reagan.

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Johnathan Locke - Edgewater, MD - Karma: Good

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goverment - 2009-10-26 14:31:59

iraq needed to be delt with. when your country allows terriost groups to set up camp and plan attacks on the u.s.a and those attacks are a reality, we the united states of america need to defend our country. we can not sit back and waite for these attacks. every one wants to blame bush. has any one thought about clinton attacking one of those camps in afghan for two days straight just to get his name and monicas name off the front page of the papers for getting a bj. think about that the next time you start typing again. bush got a raw deal, stop blameing him.

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edward weller - middle river, md - Karma: Neutral

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Bush/Cheney lies - 2009-10-26 14:31:10

It is this continued obsession with Bush that is keeping this country from moving forward. 10-20 years from now society will look back and see that the current administration is doing far more damage than Bush ever did.

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Tom B. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Bush/Cheney lies - 2009-10-26 14:27:59

How disturbing that no one had the same philosophies when Clinton was getting his "jollies" in the Oval Office? Where was the call for arrests when the immorality and lies "spewing forth", as it were, from our elected officials was right here in our own back yard? How soon we forget 9/11...I think that was a rather tangible example of radical insurgents from the Middle East "imminently" coming to attack us. And, I don't exactly see a significant change in the violence, both towards Alliance Forces or amongst the peoples of the Iraq, Iran, Palentstine, Afghanistan, and so forth, occurring since Obama came into power...so much for peace under the New Regime...where is this "change" we were promised? Oh yes, that may only be evident if you are a Democratic supporter...

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annie s. - Crofton, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Bush/Cheney lies - 2009-10-26 14:16:23

Perhaps we should arrest people who are so deranged that they call for the arrest of Bush and Cheney. These are the idiots who think the United States is a negative influence in the World and that our government is evil.

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Fred B. - Columbia, MD - Karma: Neutral