The county Board of Elections said Thursday that it had accepted just more than 19,000 of the more than 40,000 signatures submitted by voters saying they wanted a ballot item on the county measure setting up zoning for slots at the Hanover mall.
Supporters needed 18,790 signatures, but the petition will not be certified until county elections officials verify each of the accepted signatures.
Rob Annicelli, president of the citizens group Stop Slots at Arundel Mills, said he already views the petition drive as a victory.
"This is affirmation of what the voters want," Annicelli said. "I'm not surprised we got the numbers we did."
A Baltimore-based developer, The Cordish Cos., plans to build the Maryland Live! casino, with 4,750 slot machines, at Arundel Mills.
Within weeks of the County Council's passage of the zoning measure, members of Stop Slots started the petition drive. They were joined by the Maryland Jockey Club, which wants to have a slots casino at Laurel Park and hired a firm to collect signatures.
But the battle is far from over. Two weeks ago, attorneys for Cordish filed a lawsuit claiming that those carrying out the petition drive had forged signatures and misled voters.
Among other accusations, the lawsuit alleges that some residents who signed may have also signed family members' names.
Joe Weinberg, Cordish's managing partner, said he believes the signatures submitted to the county will be discarded. The jockey club bankrolled the petition effort and has a vested interest in its outcome, Weinberg said.
The club's parent company, Magna Entertainment, is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings in Delaware.
"Our lawsuit addresses extensive, systematic irregularities in the petition collection process and we are confident that we will prevail once the court reviews the evidence," Weinberg wrote in an e-mail. He estimated that the state loses $1.1 million for each day of delay caused by the petition effort, and that the county loses $82,000 per day.
The petition drive's organizers submitted their first round of signatures, totaling nearly 24,000, a month ago. More than half the signatures were discarded because they didn't match the signers' voter registration cards, or because they were illegible.
Last week, the organizers submitted another 17,000 signatures.
Joe Torre, director of the county Board of Elections, declined to comment on the process of certifying the signatures.
But Annicelli said he believes election workers have to finish counting the rest of the names submitted, even though the petitioners' goal has been met.
"We may still exceed … (the required number of signatures) by a significant number," Annicelli said.
In a statement, Maryland Jockey Club President Tom Chuckas called the petition drive "a coalition in the truest sense of the word."
"The Maryland Jockey Club has been proud to be a part of this historic effort," Chuckas said.
The jockey club hired a professional campaign organizer, Fieldworks Inc., to help collect signatures in favor of the referendum.
The County Council approved zoning for the casino just before Christmas.
Members of Stop Slots also have appealed the grading permit issued by the county for the casino. Details of that appeal weren't immediately available, and Annicelli declined to discuss the matter.
The Board of Appeals has scheduled a hearing for 6:30 p.m. April 6 at council chambers.
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All the Facts, not "truthiness" - 2010-03-20 08:16:23
29,000 signature lines submitted with
24,000 "signatures" from some one and
of some kind were on the sheets.
13,000 entries were given a pass by the BOE in the first round because the addresses and
names were spelled right. That is all.
NOTE: the BOE cannot and does not check the
hand writing or match the signature script, only the spelling and sequence of letters, snytax.
~150 citizen volunteers got ~4000 signatures.
~150 hired signature people got ~20,000 signatures. 100% Grass roots? Nope.
Whether you are for or against slots, truly....the bigger issue here is
rampant petition signature fraud and major irregularities on the signature sheets that were passed through.
Several groups have FOIA'd the signature sheets. TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT ONE SOMETIME!
Do not assume this is the "will of the people" or that 40,000 separate people and your fellow AA County citizens actually signed the petitions.
A kid can see that the hand writing is the same on many signature sheets where each should be dis-similar.
Auditing petitions is something I deal with on a regular basis for other things and the rejection rates are very high if 100% signature check/audit is done.
At best, this is astroturf and and runs a high risk of setting a precedent for corporations to use petition drives and hijacked democratic process and legislation in AA County if the process is not fixed and fixed FAST.
Of the signatures that have gotten through,
I'm hearing reports of almost 50% or more of them, while having DOB, name and address and a "signature" on them, the signatures and addresses have major irregularities such as the registered voters never actually signed the petition, middle names scribbled in later
and similar handwriting on many signatures.
While the 150 volunteers that gathered 4000 signatures may have done a much better job,
the "Works" people did not.
There needs to be a 100 signature audit.
The courts need to stop illegitimate petitio
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Keith - 2010-03-17 18:47:19
Thanks again for your gracious response. I think it's safe to say that the heavy lifting and funding for the petition drive was done by Laurel Racing Track -- that's not in dispute by any objective measure. Lobbyists cash goes a long way when looking for a bailout. As you alluded to early, the current zoning bill already includes Laurel Racing Track as a potential destination for gambling. If the referendum heads to voters this fall, I do think the debate will turn on who benefits from the sale of the racing track and why the racing track failed to pay the $30 million fee to begin with. I do think that many of those 19K or 40K petition signers will feel that they've been duped by Laurel Racing Track. I'm talking to a LOT of people out here and they are in no mood for bailouts of any kind. I think this will especially be the case once many of those petition signers and Anne Arundel County voters in general learn more about the race track's bankruptcy issues.
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Devin - 2010-03-17 15:49:15
Sorry for misspelling your name earlier.
The petition is about not placing slots at Arundel Mills. What I, many other people living around the mall, and many people from throughout the county believe (and have believed since the Cordish bid was first announced) is that Arundel Mills is not an acceptable location for slots. That is why over 40,000 people have signed the petition to put the zoning bill to voter referendum. Many people not affiliated with the Jockey Club volunteered to gather signatures for the petition. Did the Jockey Club support the petition effort, yes, and they have their own reasons for doing so. But there is also no guarantee that Laurel Race Track will obtain slots, though a successful referendum would potentially give them another opportunity to bid for the slots license.
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Keith Jamison - Hanover, MD - Karma: Neutral
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So, what happens - 2010-03-17 10:01:08
If this shows up as a referendum question? First off we are in a mid year election so turnout is going to be VERY light--not like it was when Obama was elected in 2008.
Will the 19,000+ petition signers turn out to voice their support then? Or are they only supporters when someone knocks on their door or corners them at Walmart?
What will happen if South County (not impacted by slots either at Laurel or AMM) turns our heavily and decides to approve the location?
And if this referendum fails, what are the NIMBYs going to do then?
Personally I think the slots are a good idea and I really don't have an opinion on the "right" place for them. However, I took the time to read the question and be an informed voter in 2008. I knew exactly where these slots COULD go. It is a shame that it seems that the voters in the area did not take the election as seriously as they probably should have.
And one final note, people like to say these slots are going to be IN the Mall. This is wrong, it is a separate area from the mall. The Golden Corral (I think that is the name of the place) is not IN the mall, it is located on the property maintained by the mall management. So no, you are not walking out of the movie theatre and dropping a few quarters. You will not be picking up a few lacy underthings at Victoria Secret and spinning the wheel of chance (unless you bought the wrong thing or the wrong size, but that has nothing to do with gambling)
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Still don't see it. - 2010-03-16 19:10:06
Mr. DeFrancis, Magna, and the Jockey Club, had their opportunity, but could not come up with the bid requirement. Any objective observer knew the State would not and could not retain bid application fee. The fee was to assure qualified entities would bid. DeFrancis etal was looking for special concession. Instead of mudding the stalls, action should be taken to acknowledge Maryland state's ownership of the Preakness and the track should auctioned off as quickly as possible. DeFrances etal is simply trying to enhance value of a bankrupt asset. They're not interested in horses, but the value one armed bandits add. Cordish complied with all procedures and regulations pertaining to the gambling casino. Gambling was approved by voters and zoning by the Council. If denied, the Court, more than likely, will approve Cordish moving forward. The result will be delaying revenue to the State and County and large legal bill.
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Keith - 2010-03-16 15:15:59
So, based on your argument then, what will be different is that the petition process will make the racing track more "attractive" (read more money) for sale? Who pockets the benefits from that? What entity or person stands to gain from a more lucrative sale of the racing track?
I didn't know that the petition was about making sure that some bankrupt owner get maximum dollar for his diminished asset - it sounds like something right out of the TARP program.
Also, you cited Cordish as a potential owner of the race tracks. But Cordish put up the $30 million cash in this uncertain economic environment without the same guarantee that they would not receive a refund in the event of an unsuccessful license - right? I would argue that Cordish took the greater risk that they would lose $30 million upfront.
No one can simply explain why Laurel Racing track absolutely REFUSED to pay the $30 million. It's pay to play here in Maryland and everyone understood that. The Laurel Racing track had an equal or better chance of getting the license than anyone. Again, once many of those who signed the petition find out that Laurel had their shot, there is going to be some tremendous blow-back on those who directed the petition effort.
I'm not sure why Laurel Racing track has held the process in such contempt and continues to use thousands of lobbyists dollars for a second-chance bailout.
I do thank you for your response.
Devin
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Devon - 2010-03-16 14:04:58
Regarding what will be different with Laurel/MJC, for one it will be in the hands of new owners once the bankruptcy court finalizes the sale (though that new owner could even be Cordish). So it is quite possible or probable the new owners will be more financially sound than Magna was. Secondly, the earlier profit-sharing agreement with DeFrancis has been rejected via the bankruptcy process, which makes the economics of slots at Laurel race track more attractive now.
Regarding why Magna did not pay the full initial license fee (or at least pay the fee for a minimal 500 slot machines like the Baltimore group did), well you would have to ask them. I do not know. I will say that regardless of what the state has indicated, the state was less than clear regarding refunds for unsuccessful applicants, particularly in the case where local zoning was not obtained. It was even the subject of one of the pre-submission questions and the answer did not appear to guarantee a refund in this case. If you were in a financially challenged environment and didnt have a guarantee that over $20 million would be returned to you if you were unsuccessful in your bid, how likely is it you would part with that much cash?
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Legality - 2010-03-16 12:38:10
Dave, Keith et al:
Please help me understand. If the Laurel Racing Track had simply respected "the process" and taxpayers to begin with, we probably wouldn't be talking about Arundel Mills at all. Why did Laurel Racing Track refuse to pay $30 million for the license to begin with? The Laurel Racing Track is in bankruptcy. If they didn't pay the $30 million to begin with, what will be different this time? May I have the kindness of your reply?
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Is this even legal? - 2010-03-16 12:20:24
The Arundel Mills Mall was approved Partly by way of a petition and that petition was started by the Arundel Mills Taskforce that was delegated by the County executive and after negotiating with the county, The state and the Mills signed a referendum they mistakenly thought would protect that land from over expansion in perpetuity. When it was question that they were not representing the will of its community's a petition was circulated by them and financed by the Mills Corporation. ( sound familiar) The plan was kwown as B/E and was entered into by way of plats into the county record. No lot was supposed to be more then 80% covered. How many are today? Local community's were to be shielded from the impact How Are they today? Where are all the trees that were going to remain? Is this expansion no matter what it is. Legal? Is fiscal zoning legal? Times are hard Yes but the saddest part to me of this is the county and the council ignoring its agreements How can anyone ever trust them again? West county is seen as nothing but a fiscal generator. Funds spent not on west county's citizens but on infrastructure to fuel growth and those that only want to visit it. Is it even legal?That Taskforce has meet nonstop since 1998 fought to protect B/E but the Simon Corporation ( despite direct questioning in meetings) did not inform the taskforce of its plan or intentions . If they and Mr Cordish weren't doing something illegal they shouldn't have acted like thieves!
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Keith - 2010-03-16 11:07:51
Mr. Jamison:
So you see nothing wrong with the Laurel Jockey Club refusing to provide $30 million for the license to begin with? If the Laurel Racing Track had simply respected ALL taxpayers to begin with, would we be talking about the petition?
You're also not suggesting in your response to Mr. Trampolini that the petition drive was a grassroots effort?
Can you help me understand how things will be different with the Laurel Jockey Club in light of the petition?
The kindness of your reply is appreciated.
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Legal Basis - 2010-03-15 16:29:30
Harry, the legal basis is the MD slots legislation left zoning to the counties. And Anne Arundel County law allows referendum petitions of laws the council and executive pass. Which is exactly what is transpiring, and there is nothing that is inappropriate.
Remember who passed the zoning bill in the county council. Dillon, who in my opinion should have recused himself from the vote; Benoit, a purported ardent gambling foe; and Johnson and Ferrar, both selected for office by the council and not placed in office by voters.
No offense to those four individuals, but that is hardly the composition of council members I want to see passing such controversial legislation.
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slots/table games - 2010-03-15 15:34:13
I look at it this way,I do not realy gamble but it is fun like playing a pinball machine, if Md. does not want them, we will take all of your money,and I am from Md.LOTS OF INCOME FROM MD.and we have no SALES TAX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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What is the legal basis? - 2010-03-15 13:24:28
I voted against slots, I think it is inappropriate to balance state budget on gambling. That being said, voters approved gambling, the state designated areas within which casinos could be located. The mall is within the boudaries, the 'zoning' has been approved. What is the legal basis for denying the casino? Cordish has followed the rules. What is the basis for denying them the right to build an approved use at an approved location?
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harry trampolini - severna park, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Media Fail 2 - 2010-03-15 10:20:44
To be clear, the petition was funded and directed by Laurel Racing Track - a bankrupt company only interested in a bailout. There is no planned development of the Laurel Racing site because Magna and the Jockey Club are in bankruptcy - they can't buy toilet paper unless some judge in Delaware approves it.
Once the dust settles on this, and the media focuses more attention on the petition drive, the people who supported and directed the petition drive will have to explain to taxpayers why the Jockey Club deserves a "do-over" and a second-chance bailout. So far, I'm not finding anyone who directed the petition drive, capable of explaining: 1.) why Laurel Racing refused to pay $30 million for the license to begin with and 2.) How things will be different with the Laurel Racing track now that they have duped thousands of taxpayers into supporting this petition drive. I await a kind and reasonable response.
Respectfully,
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Devin Tucker - Laurel, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Maryellen - 2010-03-15 07:21:35
So Cordish is interested in Cordish. Ok. If I buy that point. Who is Magna interested in, or the Maryland Jockey Club?
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Rick M - Laurel, Md - Karma: Excellent
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Laurel Park - 2010-03-15 05:49:08
Has anyone seen Laurel Park or the area surrounding it recently? Talk about lack of infrastructure and unsuitability of locale, especially for environmental concerns.
All of the legitimate reasons for NOT wanting slots at the mall apply doubly so to Laurel. Besides, it's really all about the people who initially did not qualify to bid, trying to get back in the money. Arundel Mills voted for slots, so they should "man up" and take the consequences.
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MD Guy is right on!! - 2010-03-15 02:30:48
Cordish is interested in Cordish. The money from slots and the expanded gaming is exaggerated for taxpayers. I have been listening for years from Pols and developers telling me how much more money development would bring to the county. It is all hype. It is to concentrate the wealth in the hands of a few, while the rest of us foot the bills for public safety, education etc..I had no trouble collecting signatures for the petition drive. Arundel Mills should be left alone to thrive as a "Regional shopping Mall" as sold to the County tax payers and Laurel race track needs to be revived and invigorated as pointed out by M. Young. All the more reason for slots at Laurel. Saves an industry, improves a decaying facility and creates new jobs in a prime location for planned development.
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Maryellen Brady - Edgewater, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Slots fun! - 2010-03-14 22:29:00
MD Guy, thank you for giving me that lesson in "democracy." How silly of me to not understand democracy. Thank you for pointing out that not every county resident is a registered voter. I dont know where Id be without your infinite wisdom on these matters.
Im sorry you wasted those few weeks of your life collecting signatures.
Perhaps one day we can laugh about it as we play slots and grab a bite to eat at Johnny Rockets. Cheers!
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Mark M - MIllersville, MD - Karma: Excellent
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slots a amils - 2010-03-14 19:05:26
Citizens of Arundel Mills were initially sympathetic to citizens in Laurel who DO NOT
WANT SLOTS AT THE TRACK. Then they became desperate and linked up with the jockey club.
Environmentally as well as for the community of Laurel, the casino would be disastrous. The only people to benefit from it are the owners and former owners of Magna.And they are desperate. That's what the success of Stop SLots at Arundel Mills is really about.
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Marjorie Schulenburg - Laurel, MD - Karma: Good
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Many Vs Few - 2010-03-13 22:34:54
@Mark M - Get lessons on democracy 101. This was a petition for referendum and not a general election. Not everybody in county is registered voter and not every registered voter was approeched to sign the petition. I was one of the volunteers in this effort and for every person who sais he/she wantes slots at Arundel Mills or said they didnt care where it goes, there were two who opposed the slots at Mills and signed the petition and this was not from a community anywhere close to Arundel Mills Mall.
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Right Numbers - 2010-03-13 22:23:11
@ Tim Reyburn - Tim rather than wasting your time writing crap here, you are better of getting some lessons on Democracy 101 and mathematics. 56% signatures are not rejected. Only 45% are. You are counting blank signatures lines in your calculations. And by the way rejected signatures dont mean they are not of real people as Cordish is trying to project. They are being invalidated for pretty trivial reasons like not including middle initial. There is no credibility issue here. Cordish is so arrogant (and people like you are so ignorant) that he is dismissing the wish of the people saying its fraud. What is fraud is the county council and Cordish himself.
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Who should vote? - 2010-03-13 20:18:13
If the issue goes to vote, will only the people who live around the mall get to vote, or will it be all the residents of AA county? If all the residents of AA county, even those who live in South County get to have a say in the matter, then why not the whole state? Maybe the rest of us might want to spend a little of our income on such entertainment and should have a say.
I seem to remember that the slots issue was a statewide issue when it was being approved. So now we let it become a local issue to decide whether it will go forward?
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Russ Patterson - Stevensville, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Media Fail - 2010-03-13 19:50:18
The track owners thought so much of AA county taxpayers that they REFUSED to pay the $30 million fee for the license. The track has been in bankruptcy for the past 6-7 years, delisted from the NASDAQ stock exchange, and face a mountain of lawsuits related to management and accounting practices - now that the track owners, who paid for the petition drive, have duped thousands of signatures, what exactly will be different this time with Laurel Racing Track. Media needs to report the facts and nothing but the facts about Magna.
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Devin Tucker - Laurel, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Good news - 2010-03-13 08:54:06
Now that the location of the Casino and the intention to eventually include table games are known the citizens should have their day to be heard in November.
This is the way democracy is designed to work. If the majority want little Las Vegas at the mall I will be surprised but then again nothing much surpise me anymore.
I will vote against the Casino. I have seen many lives ruined by gambling and none improved.
We should focus on creating jobs in industries that dont pray on the weak and ill.
PB
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Pat Bell - Millersville, MD - Karma: Neutral
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On Delays and Petitions - 2010-03-12 23:46:24
Cordish knew this proposal would be fought every step of the way, because the residents of the community do not want it. Trying to force an unwanted project into the community is the cause for the delay, not the residents opposing it. If you build it someplace where it is wanted, it will proceed much quicker.
Many of the signatures that are being rejected are from legitimate people who definitely support the referendum. The regulations for collecting the signatures are very stringent, which causes signatures to be rejected if they are not legible, or if they fail to include middle initials and mundane details. The petition collectors are held to a very high standard, and are watched very closely by the County. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about Cordish who has utilized numerous underhanded strategies in their efforts to build their Casino where it is not wanted.
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Philip Van der Vossen - Hanover, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Get facts straight - 2010-03-12 22:36:49
There were only 23k names submitted initially, not 29k. The 29k figure includes blank lines.
Date of birth information is also required on the petition form.
The number of accepted signatures is already over 20k and they are still counting.
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Keith Jamison - Hanover, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Big number big errors - 2010-03-12 20:11:19
With a 56% rejection on 29,000 first submitted, its hardly something for the citizens claiming to be against slots to be proud of.
Of those 13,000 signatures that got through the BOE, a group out of the mid west is auditing those by calling people on the valid signatures list.
One prominent person I know received
a call from that company and was told a legible address and signature were listed on the signature sheet with his name on it! While he is a registered voter, HE CONFIRMED HE NEVER SIGNED IT! For all I know, my signature could be on it too.
So, of the 13,000 that got through the first remedial examination by the BOE, there remains SERIOUS issues with validity.
As long as the address is accurate, the name is spelled right and there is a signature
that matches the voters NAME on the registration card, the BOE considers it a valid entry! The BOE cannot be expected to be handwriting experts.
So, if a significant percentage of the audited 13,000 have problems many more signatures should be thrown out. No question.
There remains a significant credibility issue here with this petition drive that is taking advantage of a weakness in the system. That is a significant factor moral concern that needs to be addressed, thoroughly.
If the 56% rejection rate holds, that would leave a theoretical of 7480 our of the 17,000 more may getg through the BOE.
Thus, putting them close to 19,000 target.
However, if a significant percentage of the signatures on both rounds are also proven to be problematic, there is still a strong chance they could fail.
It just depends on how far the auditing can go.
The BOE has to give a pass to addresses and signatures that match registered voters if the syntax on the address and name is accurate even if the signatures handwriting looks similar to others on the same sheet!
That just isn't right.
For shame.
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Tim Reyburn - Laurel, MD - Karma: Excellent
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FEW vs many - 2010-03-12 16:55:25
of roughly 500,000 residents of AACo 40,000 makes up 8% of the population (assuming all 40,000 are legitimate signers of the petition-which it doesnt appear is the case)
A small minority. Not enough enough to fill up M&T Bank stadium.
Few vs many
And I would bet many of the "40,000" really arent even passionate enough about it to go out and vote.
Stop blocking this so my county roads and infrastructure can be improved upon please.
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Mark M - MIllersville, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Mark M - 2010-03-12 16:39:39
This is not about few vs. many. This is in regard to Arundel Mills not being an appropriate location for slots in Maryland. 40,000 Anne Arundel County citizens signed the petition asking this issue to be placed on the ballot.
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Keith Jamison - Hanover, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Council's exposed - 2010-03-12 16:39:38
Well it is unfortunate the Council had to go on record, what a shame if they could have somehow got Defrancis to get that petition going earlier.... The track at Laurel needs to be on the auction block.. now. The State's Preakness ownership has to be acknowledged...now. Cordish has done everything in accordance with the imposed regulations, met the bidding deadline and have acted promptly. They will be successful in Court, perhaps not contesting signatures, but in affirming their rights to construct the casino. Delay this is costing the State and County significant revenue. Jockey Club, DeFrancis, and Magna are only interested in enhancing value of their bankrupt race track.
They failed because of poor business practices, and will head for the door or the lowest threshold in any future at the tracks. Put Laurel on the market and Cordish will purchase it.
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harry trampolini - severna park, MD - Karma: Excellent
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thanks for the delay - 2010-03-12 14:48:23
what this boils down to is the good of the few are delaying the good of the many.
Laurel had every opportunity to get slots and they botched it.
Cordish did this the proper way and now they are being vilified.
So it comes down to desperation form the MD Jockeys Club and local residents that say "not in my neighborhood."
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Mark M - MIllersville, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Hey I got an idea!!! - 2010-03-12 14:46:36
PUT THE SLOTS AT LAUREL PARK! I really did think, along with so many others that voted, when we voted for Question 2 (the slots referrendum)that the most logical site for the AA slots emporium was to be the race track in Laurel. After all, SLOTS AT THE TRACK has been all we've heard and campaigned for the last 12 years.
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Bobby Lillis - Laurel, MD - Karma: Neutral
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Bad Choices - 2010-03-12 14:42:52
The people that think it would be better to have slots at that trasheap known as Laurel Racetrack must have a screw loose. Put them there and it will live up to the trashy, run-down, filth they have portrayed. I don't gamble with them but I've seen the ones in Dover and West Va and they are clean, well run. Let the ractrack run them and your nighmares will come true.
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M Young - Crownsville, MD - Karma: Excellent
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we all get it - 2010-03-12 14:38:21
we understand what cordish is trying to say...
$30 million a month (give or take--for state alone) until this is voted on in November adds up Keith. Granted the state doesnt see the money until contruction is complete and operations have begun... but the longer its delayed... the longer we have to wait to reap the reward for these revenues.
We get it.
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Mark M - MIllersville, MD - Karma: Excellent
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Tired of Cordish/Weinberg Misrepres - 2010-03-12 13:38:18
Again, they have indicated the state is losing money due to the petition effort.
The reality is their facility would not have opened until late 2011 at the earliest, so as of today the state and county have lost nothing.
Contrary to their assertions.
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Keith Jamison - Hanover, MD - Karma: Neutral
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MArket House - 2010-03-12 13:10:24
The market house would be a good temporary venue for slots. It would attract people to the bars and Blonder will surely get some of the ovrrflow. This is of course just a short term solution to Josh's MArket House problem but I think it would be a good experiment.
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Fred Shubbie - annapolis , md - Karma: Terrible
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