Recession forcing some students from private to public schools

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Other Choices? - 2009-08-03 18:33:14

Milton Friedman, Nobel prize winner (as well as other awards) and one of the most eminent economists ever, liked vouchers because they
promote competition among schools to a much greater degree than our current system. He argued as far back as the 50s that poorer families would benefit from vouchers because they would give poorer kids a chance to go to schools they otherwise would never have the opportunity to attend. Existing voucher programs have shown that kids who were randomly selected to use vouchers and choose their own schools performed better academically than those who didn't, and that
vouchers improve academic performance and reduce racial segregation. Limited voucher programs have been successful in places like Milwaukee and Cleveland. See www.friedmanfoundation.org.

Vouchers are supported by politicians as diverse as John McCain and Kurt Schmoke. The most vocal critics of vouchers are teachers unions who are trying to protect the positions of their members.

Kids who live in poorer areas are often relegated to attending weaker
performing, underfunded schools. A voucher program would give them a chance, at least, to go somewhere else. If more families had the opportunity to attend schools other than the ones they are assigned to as a result of the locations of their homes, more alternative schools would be created, and it is possible that lotteries might not have to
be used.

There is clearly a strong desire among many families to find schools that are alternatives to traditional public schools. That's why charter and magnet schools are often so popular. If we institutionalized school choice through a voucher program, many, many kids could benefit.

Just FYI that some private schools have "tracks" as well.

I heard great things about the IB program, and hopefully all those who finish will end up with the IB certificate. I imagine it is like the AP Classes, where a certain percentage get at least a 3 for College Credit.

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Marilyn D. - Davidsonville, Md - Karma: Neutral

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Vouchers are a nice idea, but inher - 2009-08-03 17:06:38

I am not a supporter of school vouchers, for the simple reason that it's basically a lottery, and some kids will be left at the "bad" schools. Far better to work at improving these schools, so ALL children have a shot at a decent education. This is also the problem with school funding being dependent on local property taxes - it is inherently unfair, as areas with lower incomes will receive less money for schools-really the opposite of what's actually needed. Title I attempts to address the disparity, but doesn't necessarily bridge the gap completely. My feeling has always been - why should children unlucky enough to be born into poor families be stuck with a subpar education? They are effectively penalized for their circumstances, which are, obviously, beyond their control.

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L. Boeck - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Just a few comments - 2009-08-02 12:46:47

I too am a transitioned parent from private to public. It has been a fantastic experience and I feel that my kids are better for it. We got them out of the bubble that encapsulates them at private schools.
I am shocked that a teacher would say there is nothing for a child in the public schools. Perhaps that is the way it was when you were in the public schools, but a lot has changed over the past few years with the IB program et al.
As to the higher percentage of college bound privateers...the curriculum is focused on college from first grade. Private schools do not have the resources to offer adequate training for other options. The public high schools now offer three "tracks" for the kids, college, career and technical. Certainly if a mechanically inclined kid wanted to be a top notch mechanic, Key would fail him miserably, but CAT South would be the winner hands down. It boils down to the resources (money) available, and the private schools focus on the college track.
Comparisons would be a great thing but it will NEVER happen. The private schools are private in more ways than one and will never agree to that. They have no problem comparing teacher salaries when they are raising tuition, but to compare academic performance and percentages, no way. As a matter of fact, other than the SATs, the batter of tests taken in private schools are completely different than the state. And I will say, that the first year in public school was a challenge for ALL of my kids because they needed to "catch up".

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John F. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Public v Private - 2009-08-01 09:18:20

Peg, sorry for making you ticked, but your comment just serves to illustrate my point. You worked like heck to put one child through Key. If you had two or more children there is no way you could have sent them all there (I'm pretty sure it's impossible to work TEN jobs!).

A school that charges $22,000 per year (by far the highest tuition in our area) is by definition exclusive.

The voucher question sure does merit a closer look. Wouldn't it be nice if people from all backgrounds had the "option" and the "very real alternative" to send their children to any school they chose?

Once again, the point is that Annapolis today is an extremely segregated town (the Capital ran a great series on this very issue a few years back). I think the foundation for this segregation is reinforced early with the fact that the majority children from different backgrounds do not go to school together.

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Richard E. - , - Karma: Neutral

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Other Choices? - 2009-08-01 08:44:54

Quality education is what it is about for families who really care about education and the contacts they make will hopefully be their friends for life because you have other families who share that same value. (it is not for everyone, hence "private") Some kids try it and find that they have to go back to the public schools if it doesn't work out. Then they may try another private school and succeed! Parents, I know, sometimes don't give up in their search and thank God there are many private school choices. :)

I imagaine the Magnet School families get very close too. When you apply to a "higher level" program, you tend to appreciate the opportunity and hopefully support one another. I can list the "amens" if you really want me too...just ask. You may be surprised. Yep, very worth it, especially in this post 9-11/ recession decade, in fact, one can argue, it is more worth it :)

Please know that these private schools do much to help the communities outside their schools as well, which I can also list for you from my experience. Yep, the rich kids, do service projects, imagine that! :)

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Marilyn D. - Davidsonville, Md - Karma: Neutral

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public v private school 2nd take - 2009-08-01 05:29:23

Hi Molly. Molly is right. Richard is right on some things. The point is that your kid gets out of school what they put into it, sometimes. In Molly's case, her child is way above the norm and the public system is too overtaxed to meet his requirements and so Key was a good fit. Don't know about Richards kids but I'm getting a little ticked about how Richard keeps on about the wealthy only at Key. I worked 5 jobs to keep my child there for 7 years. Thank god Bates turned out to be a good fit for her. That's about it. And I don't own a home either.

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Peg S. - Annapolis, md - Karma: Neutral

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Other Choices? - 2009-07-31 20:32:50

Molly it was great to read your post about putting off the larger home in support of your child's private school education. I am glad that you child is now challenged as well!

Richard, do you think that school vouchers would help? That way the so called "have nots" can be provided with more choices?

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Marilyn D. - Davidsonville, Md - Karma: Neutral

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Public v Private - 2009-07-31 20:12:19

"a very real alternative"
"thankful that there are private options"

I'm sorry to say that the "alternative" and "options" you speak of are only available to those who have a lot of money. For someone making less that $100k a year, Key, at a cost of $22,000 per year, is definitely not a real option.

At $22,000 per year Key is first and foremost about exclusivity. Key has a beautiful campus, I like their focus on the outdoors, we had two good years and were lucky to have great teachers, but I stand by my original comment about a complete lack of diversity (and my emphasis is on economic diversity). And in a country (and world) that is becoming much more integrated and diverse, Key's lack of diversity is a huge drawback not just culturally but in a competitive world coming from a sheltered background puts you at a disadvantage.

I'm glad that your child is thriving at Key, however what would be your "option" if you had two or more children? If you are like you say "not wealthy" then what would you do? What "option" would you have? I think it is no accident that the preponderance of families who attend Key have one child.

My original point is that if more of the "haves" sent their kids to public school Annapolis would be (and could be) a much better place. Hard to argue with that.

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Private v. Public - 2009-07-31 17:31:21

I want to provide another perspective about private schools, and especially about Key, responding particularly to Richard E. Our child has gone to Key for several years. He had been at West Annapolis, a blue ribbon school, and spent first, second, and third grade asking, "When are we going to start learning things?" (Direct quote.) His first grade teacher told us, very quietly, that the public school system here had "nothing to offer" him. He needed help learning how to learn. He visited Key and never looked back. The school focuses on learning ideas and concepts rather than teaching facts, and being a contributing member of a close community of friends rather than competing to be "the best" among one's peers. I don't say that I agree with all that Key is, but it has been worth the very real sacrifice we have made (including staying in our 'starter' home). He has emerged with an incredible sense of self, worth and wish to contribute to the world. Key does have a lot of wealthy families, bless them (we are so not one of them!), who have contributed above and beyond the tuition to help Key strive to attain its very real goal of diversity in all respects. Key has been a unique gem, providing a very real alternative. I believe that many students can thrive at public schools and I support a strong public school system, but I believe that, until a public school system offers alternatives to meet a variety of students' learning needs (and kids learn in many, many different ways), I am thankful that there are private options.

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Molly K. - , - Karma: Neutral

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to college or not to college - 2009-07-31 10:48:12

Maybe we should factor in that the children that are attending and graduating from a private school more then likely have the financial means to go on to college. While the children who graduate from a public school may not. Could this be the reason behind the lower number?

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S. - Pasadena, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Other Choices? - 2009-07-31 00:08:50

@C Mac....Thanks, I saw that data an applaud the public school system who are putting our taxes to good use in "Maryland". I would like to see more data on public vs private and yes, many parents do look at the list of Colleges or Schlorship awards to graduating Seniors, not to say that South River is "up there"! But my understanding is that a higher percentage of kids go to College from private schools for whatever reason. When we moved here, I heard that South River sent only 50% to College so I was concerned. Like I said, I remember actually meeting a lady who said if she had extra money it was going into her house and boat! GESHHH Yet another said that she put off the deck as she values Private Education. It is about choices, and those choices are indeed getting harder. ANother lady told me that she would NEVER do all the driving I do! The bus comes right to the house! Sometimes I wonder why we sacrifice but in the end we will see if it mattered. I would like to see more data frankly but am confident that the "amens" will be worth it to me. The safety and security and college acceptance rates are key. (further,some families have split their kids in public and private knowing some of the benefits)

However the real solution to this issue is school vouchers. We should be able to choose the school, public or private, that works best for our kids and pay the cost (mostly, at least) with public resources that come from the taxes we all pay. Let schools compete with each otheron a level playing field for the best performance and results and our kids will be the winners.

Working together is important...like when we attended a redistricting hearing for our neighborhood public school, regardless of having a "private school kid". My heart does go out to those who do "value" private schools and can't continue for financial reasons. It could happen to anyone and in the end the support we give our children as parents is really what counts too.

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Marilyn D. - Davidsonville, Md - Karma: Neutral

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J Cohen - 2009-07-30 15:58:12

I am an avid supporter of the Annapolis City Public schools. My daughter will be attending the PVA Magnet program at Bates Middle school this fall along with the majority of her 5th grade class from West Annapolis Elementary. Prior to the PVA coming into existence, which was strongly supported by Josh Cohen, only a handful of my daughter's peers were going to attend Bates. At the conclusion of their summer camp, it was wonderful to watch the PVA kids from many different backgrounds come together and perform as one . Our city kids are a pretty great bunch!

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Heidi P. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Research is Good - 2009-07-30 15:41:26

Ms. Marilyn, your neighbors reaction to your choice in schools wasn't "hatred", it was shear surprise. They were probably thinking... doesn't she know that Maryland Public Schools were ranked #1 in the nation this past year, up from #3 the previous year? Doesn't she also know that last year South River High School ranked #417 out of over 20,000 public high schools nationwide? While rival schools like Broadneck, Severna Park & Annapolis ranked an impressive 216, 326 & 361. Archbishop Spalding is a fine school, but most elect not to pay the price for a few amens. It may not be wise nor "Christian" to judge and accuse your neighbor prior to knowing all the facts. They're obviously doing what's best for their kids. Tuition at Archbishop Spalding $11,295, a Newsweek Magazine $5.95 and a Maryland Public School education.... priceless. We should all be proud of our Maryland Public Schools.

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C. Mac - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Other Choices? - 2009-07-30 12:34:35

My son goes to Spalding...half of the cost of the Independent Private Schools, but it is diverse, with many opportunities. He had a GREAT Freshman year. We are saving half the tuition from last year. I like the fact that they offer tuition assistance.

I feel for parents with more than one child as I grew up in a family of 7 and my parents sacrificed. I hear many parents choose to have a boat or a bigger house over education. It is a matter of personal choice. We moved from Laurel to be closer to a private school and to a larger house with a bigger yard. The neighbors were more "down to earth" in Laurel. There were more to choose from with smaller yards. Who'd a thought? When we moved here, only one other parent I knew sent their kids to a private school and over the years more have followed and went back to public or stayed. Most of the reasons are financial. It is ok, but most choose what to spend their money on. For us, Education is important, and the Magnet Schools are showing there stuff! Keep it up!!!

I will say that when my new neighbor moved in, the FIRST thing his kids said to mine was "oh YOUUUU go to a PRIVATE schooolll" I was saddened by this and thought that I don't mind paying for THEIR public school kids with my taxes, but why "the hating"?.

Call me a snobby parent but it is after some battle scars.

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Marilyn D. - Davidsonville, Md - Karma: Neutral

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Misinformation re public schools - 2009-07-30 10:40:46

I got here late, but want to add a couple of things: I firmly believe that many parents are unjustifiably fearful of the public schools, and that much of their motivation, whether they admit it or not, is race-based. I recently overheard a mother who lives in the Georgetown East elem. district say to another mom, "you don't want your daughter to the be the only white kid in her class, do you?" Well - if a few more white families would send their kids to their neighborhood schools, that "problem" would be solved. DON'T be misled by average standardized test scores! As a parent of two kids who had a GREAT year at Germantown Elem. last year, I can assure others that there are wonderful teachers - and principals - in our public schools, and any child with good parental support and involvement can receive an excellent public school education.

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L. Boeck - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Neutral

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Come on now, - 2009-07-29 17:38:44

make some $$$ providing an address for the little darlings to use in Arnold and SP. But if these crazy parents sent their kids to Annapolis schools maybe it would improve them. But then again maybe if these parents planned better these economic times would not have hurt them so bad.

all the thumbs down on this post, right now the haves are looking to pay someone in Arnold or SP for their address and telling the school system their kids will be going to this address before and after school for chilcare. Don't act like that is not happening

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Pat M. - Arnold, MD - Karma: Bad

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J Cohen - 2009-07-29 13:17:11

Ouch! Is that true? I was thinking of voting for the guy.

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Richard E. - , - Karma: Neutral

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J. Cohen - 2009-07-29 12:37:05

doesn't think all Annapolitans should go to school together. He moved out of Eastport so his kids didn't have to go to Eastport Elementary.

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Have Nots..... - 2009-07-29 08:39:57

You have nots are sure a bitter bunch of people. Hasn't Owebama sent you your suitcase full of money yet?

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Private School - 2009-07-28 11:49:29

I don't necessarily agree that all people who choose to (and can afford to) send their children to private school are stuck up. I can say that from first hand experience I have observed that the people who go to Key are extremely wealthy and do not represent a large portion of "real" America (or Annapolis). There is absolutely no diversity at a school like Key and children (and parents) are worse off for it.

I am excited about Germantown. The principal and staff have been great (all teachers at Germantown must have a Master's degree in education, NOT the standard at Key), the classroom sizes are very small (something that we had at Key which I can say is a very good thing), and while the campus is currently making do with temporary classrooms they have all of the latest technology funding does not appear to be an issue. And there will be a completely new school built in the coming years (2 years hopefully).

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Haves & Have Nots - 2009-07-28 10:53:33

If you can't afford it so what-- everyone i know went to public schools in Arnold, Annapoli & SP. We are all fine. Our public school system is awesome! The RICH kids that were in private school & lived in our neighborhoods were bad to the bone- they could afford drinking, drugs and to party! The not so rich kids that were in private schools hated it and their life!!! I would NEVER EVER send my children or grandchildren to private school!!

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The haves - 2009-07-27 15:39:14

Because so many of the so called haves have pulled their kids out of public schools in Annapolis that is what created the disparity in the Annapolis schools. Broadneck and SP worked to keep haves coming to their schools. So the haves created their own problem in Annapolis. Sorry for your luck! Not to mention many of the haves are becoming the nots and frankly they just don't know how to deal.

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Pat M. - Arnold, MD - Karma: Bad

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Public School - 2009-07-27 14:02:19

We are pulling our kids out of Key School and sending them to Germantown this year. Key is $22,000 per year, if you have multiple children the annual expense can be close to $100,000 per year on a pre-tax basis. That is serious money.

While my children had a wonderful experience at Key, I truly hope that more Annapolis families make the choice to send their kids to public school. One of the major drawbacks of Annapolis is the sharp division between the "haves" and "have nots." Key and most other public schools in Annapolis has a student body made up of mostly upper-class white students, while the public schools have a majority of lower income people of color.

There is very little mixing of the two socio-economic groups. Having all residents of Annapolis send their kids to the same schools would be better for everyone and make Annapolis a better place to live.

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Public vs Private in Annapolis - 2009-07-27 12:39:00

I'm sure the private schools offer a great environment and all but $17,000 per year for primary/middle school? That just seems rediculous to me. I'll move to a better performing school district before paying that.

My kids aren't of school age yet but I will be enrolling them in Germantown Elementary when they are. I do worry though... so many of my neighbors have given up on the public schools (some without trying it)... they tell me that the teachers are stuck parenting instead of teaching, leaving those children who don't need additional parenting bored and under-challenged. I hope that isn't the case, but it sounds plausible... again, I'll move before I pay for private school. I already pay for public school with my taxes, I'm not paying twice.

In the end, I think education is less about the school and more about parental involvement... and I don't mean with their money. Though that helps too...

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B K. - Annapolis, MD - Karma: Excellent

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Private - 2009-07-27 09:17:17

I know several Private School Kids. Very Snobby and going around with the entitlement attitude that the world revolves around them. Oh yeah, they get into to just as much trouble the public school kids, just a bit better at hiding it.

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Rick Marshall - Laurel, Md - Karma: Excellent

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public v private school - 2009-07-27 06:38:09

We switched our child over from Key to Bates amid cries of horror on all sides. It was an 'inner city' school, drugs, guns, all that baloney. none true. She had the most wonderful year, corrected some things that never were addressed satisfactorily at the private school. I only wish I had moved her over in 6th grade and we're mourning the fact that we missed the art grant program. Bates is a great school and its staff superb.

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Peg S. - Annapolis, md - Karma: Neutral

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you can - 2009-07-26 21:46:15

make some $$$ providing an address for the little darlings to use in Arnold and SP. But if these crzy parents sent their kids to Annapolis schools maybe it would improve them. But then again maybe if these parents planned better these economic times would not have hurt them so bad. The last 20 years my wife and I spent with in our means, have zero CC debt and now we do not have to worry so much about the economy, I can invest in the stock market and sit back and wait for the market to grow. Thanks Ford Motor made 80,000 in 4 months.

But I must say I have to question recent scores that were in the Capital last week from the assessment tests, how is it SP gets 100 on these tests?

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Pat M. - Arnold, MD - Karma: Bad

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can't blame 'em - 2009-07-26 20:22:08

Can't blame the parents for not wanting their kid to go to AMS, Bates, or a similar school. However if the wanted a great local public school they should have thought of that before they bought their house. Broadneck and Severna Park aren't exactly far away.

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Insider Info - , - Karma: Neutral

Report Abuse or Vote In order to allow the user community the ability to collectively rank the value of comments posted on the Capital Gazette websites we have implemented a thumbs-up/down system. All logged-in users may participate by voting up/down each comment. If others vote on your comment, your individual score will go up/down depending on the votes. Initially, everyone starts with a score of zero, and must earn credits to have significant voting weight. Individuals with higher scores will have more voting weight. -18

waaaaa - 2009-07-26 10:05:37

I have lived beyond my means and now Jr has to go to school with the average kids. Waaaaa, I over paid for my house so I could live in the proper zip code

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Pat M. - Arnold, MD - Karma: Bad